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It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year

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It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year
http://www.state.nj.us/...17-18_2.htm?prompt=0

I was hesitant about if this was a good idea or not but after reading the science and thought behind it my mind is a little more at ease. I have to admit it will be nice to be able to kill 2 black ducks
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
NY too.....
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
Have any states that have the opportunity to go to 2 black ducks not accepted? I know that here in jersey there was at least a few people trying to keep the limit at 1.
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
How have you guys been dealing with the hybrid black duck in the bag issue?
I've heard of guys dropping (what I would count as) a black duck and seeing the white bars, then going ahead and dropping another that turns out to be a true black with no troubles.
I guess the only thing preventing you from doing this would be getting a true black duck FIRST......

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Paul Mc: Apr 20, 2017, 4:59 AM
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
To my knowledge CT is the only state that clearly defines in their regs how to deal with it. We have been asking for years to have it clearly stated in our regs but it has yet to happen. I would shoot another if the duck was more mallard than black ducks like this duck

[URL=http://s780.photobucket.com/...zpsbpqtxcxx.jpg.html][/url]

Or more than just the white line above the speculum like this one

[URL=http://s780.photobucket.com/...zpsudug30zu.jpg.html][/url]

But if the only determining factor is the white line above the speculum I will not shoot another black duck. A good friend of mine killed a hybrid this past season and sent a picture to a conservation officer and he said he was clear to kill another black duck so he did. For me though I'd be concerned about finding a CO that does not share the same view or is not as knowledgeable about the hybrid issue. Just not worth the stress and concern to kill one more bird.
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
Science?
Likely, they are
Trying to recruit new people into the sport by enticing them with a larger bag on a commodity which allegedly has increased.
trying to get rid of the surplus of black/mallard crosses, and this certainly might fill that bill.
Instead of upping the mallard bag, which, in my opinion, seems to be the root cause of the problem, they go after their hybrid progeny.
I guess that we shall see how this plays out in a few years. Perhaps it is, in a way, an apology for their blunder with the pintails? Guys you have to start harvesting the ones that are not in trouble, like shovelers!
george@runamuckdecoys.com
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
Will M, I am curious what the species was listed as for the banded duck in your first picture. Mallard? Black? or did it say Hybrid?
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
George,

Nothing I read made any mention of trying to reduce the amount of hybrids. I do agree with you though that the amount of hybrids is increasing (at least in my bag) and that in addition to reducing the mallard population improving habitat in the breeding grounds is the only effective means to remedy that issue. My research has lead me to believe that destruction of both traditional mallard and black duck breeding grounds has lead to both species expanding to new breeding areas which has caused the 2 species to overlap in record numbers and that is the true cause for increased hybridization rates.

The quick synopsis of the research I have done into the increase in black duck limit is that black duck numbers have stayed within a certain range over the last several decades. In reletively recent years however the number of hunters and subsequent harvest has decreased by a 3rd. According to historical data from usfws by increasing a species limit from 1 to 2 the total harvest will only increase by 1/3. This means that the total harvest will still not be as high as what it was when there were more hunters and a higher harvest even though the population has remained steady through that period
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
Oliver,

I did not kill that bird, my friend did I only keep the picture for discussions like this to use as an example but if memory serves it was banded as a hybrid

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Will M: Apr 20, 2017, 5:40 AM
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
Just to stir the pot. With the advent of spin wing decoys, many puddle ducks are shot way before most "hunters" can ID what the heck they are killing. I have heard discussions from other "hunters" at public draw areas, prior to the hunt, talking about stomping ducks in the mud after in hand ID.

If this indeed is the new trend. Robo duck trees, robot decoys, etc., just to kill ducks. Does it influence regulations on a shrinking/new age population of duck hunters?

Hybrids have been around as long as I've been duck hunting 50+ years, so why the change now? There is more to it than just science I think.

Of course I'll abide by the law, and it's a personal choice to fill a limit or not.











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
Vince

I'm not a user of spinning wing decoys, I prefer the use of a good old fashion jerk string for adding motion to my spread. And to be honest I wouldn't mind a bit if they were outlawed. That being said, why do you attribute the spinning wing decoy with such an increase in poor identification of ducks prior to people pulling the trigger? I really can't see the coorelation. What I have noticed is a large increase in people my age (mid 20s) that were not as fortunate as I was to grow up with very experienced mentors. Now admittedly I think those "kids" are more likely to kill something prior to properly IDing a bird and are by far the largest users of spinning wing decoys. However I do not think that the spinning wing decoys is to blame for this behavior
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
Will - From personal experience in 3 flyways is why I feel that way. I do not own any spin/robot decoys, but have hunted with those that do. They toll "Dark Ducks" very well and hunters can get some great shooting well before they can ID the birds. The one Pintail limit this season could be a issue for such gunning.

I agree mentoring has a major role and also the NY Waterfowl ID course. Well worth it even for us old timers. The learning curve never ends.

What does concern me is the killem at all cost mind set and that waterfowl are the enemy. Hunters geared up like a Swat team to kill limits, and ads that contribute to that.

Do I believe it is all young and not so young hunters? Absolutely not, but a segment of our community are. Our enforcement officers are already stretched to their limits, and thank goodness for facebook braggers.

The public area that I mentioned in my post was in the Mississippi Flyway. Of all the boats in our group only our boat did not have spin wing, robot decoys. We had baskets of my hand carved decoys.

Most of the other hunters came over to our boat and asked if we were really gonna hunt over those decoys, and that without spinners we would get squat. They were correct, as the first 10min. was the spin wing barrage for the day, and no birds returned until after we had to leave.

The correlation is, that when Dark Ducks are pouring in (and folks know it's their best or only chance) $hit happens and it's let God, or the law sort em out.

Patience is key to good sportsmanship, and is in short supply in some folks today.

We have ALL made duck ID mistakes. With some of today's methods of hunting it is easier than ever. Those that make and enforce the laws are well aware of that.











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
Will, thank you for setting the board straight on the black duck bag and the underlying science and rationale. As you indicated it ONLY has to do with the decreased harvest pressure observed over the last 20-30 years. Few hunters are killing fewer black ducks even though black duck numbers have been relatively stable over the same time period. The Atlantic Flyway Council and USFWS worked together and agreed on this approach.

There is no relationship with the pintail regulations. Each species is managed independently and an increase in the black duck bag would hardly offset the decreased harvest of pintails in the other flyways that have pintails but few if ant black ducks. Pintails are most important in the Pacific Flyway and there are no black ducks outside of the occasionally very lost one. I am sure that any pintail hunter in the Sacramento Valley would be happy for the Atlantic Flyway hunter to stay at one black duck so they could have 2 pintails but it doesn't work that way.
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Re: It's official jersey boys... 2 black ducks for next year In reply to
It's going to make the hour and a half drives down to south jersey a little more palatable when you have 50 blacks decoy over the course of the day. As long as we don't have the season on black ducks closed in a year or two once they review the harvest data... that's the only thing I'm hesitant about.