Another unclear regulation - sort of Duck related

Mark W

Well-known member
Unclear to me that is......


So we have a boat in Wisconsin with a 200 hp motor. We are residents of MN. In looking at the MN regulations, our son who is 21 can operate the boat in MN. In a nutshell the regs state that if you are between 12-17, and operate a boat over 25 hp, you need to have passed a course saying you understand boating laws and regulations if you want to drive the boat unsupervised.


In Wisconsin the rules are quite a bit different. It states: A person at least 16 years old may operate a motorboat only if he or she has completed a boating safety course that is accepted by the Wisconsin DNR. A person born before January 1, 1989, is exempt from the safety course requirement. Reading further in the regs it says that other States boating safety courses are acceptable including Minnesota's.


So my question. If the boat is registered in MN but is being driven by a 21 year old kid on Wisconsin waters, does he need to have passed a boating safety course? MN doesn't require it, Wisconsin appears (still a bit murky) to require one but accepts other States certificates (which MN does not require).


Not a big deal but I am curious what would happen should our 21 year od be pulled over on our lake without a certificate of course completion. I am making him take the course (and our 25 year old daughter as well) but want to know what would happen between him completing the course and driving the boat without it.


We will be hunting ducks on these lakes. This makes the question sort of duck related.


Thanks -


Mark W
 
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Since you are worried about this happening in Wisconsin, call the CO that handles that zone and ask him/her. Any answer you get on here is just going to be speculation.
 
Mark:

I suppose this is really a question for a lawyer, who should review carefully the actual language in the statutes and rules in both states. However, as I read what you shared, for your son or daughter to drive the boat in Wisconsin, he or she needs to pass a boating safety course, and Minnesota's would count.

After several egregious examples of poor boat handling, total disregard for basic safety, and failure to understand even the most basic rules of the road while fishing the Kennebec River in Maine, I'm inclined to think everyone should need a training course before being allowed to operate a vessel with a motor.

Highlight was the guy in a 25+ foot boat who was so intent on casting into a school of bass that he failed to notice his boat was drifting faster than my 14". We started about 300 yards apart, and with much more "sail" area, he was drifting a lot faster than I was. He'd have simply drifted over me if I hadn't called out to him. His reply was that if I was worried, I should "get a bigger boat".

For the record, I've been operating sail and power boats since I was 12, consider myself a competent and courteous boater after 38 years, and I'd find the requirement to take a class and get a permit a huge PITA and would probably complain about it if Maine added this requirement.

It's still a good idea.
 
Some states require you to have hunter safety to purchase a license, even out of state. So I think you would have to conform to that state reg.
I recommend the boating course, we all learn. I had my captains license and my wife took to safe boating course, I did also.
 
I think Pete's advice is good, find the CO and have him clear up the confusion. Just don't drop my name heeehee. The border law with Wisc has always been murky, trailers and boat regs. have been especially so.
 
Mark,


I don't see this as being "unclear" at all. Your son falls into the age which requires a boating certificate, period. Wisconsin recognizes and accepts, a completion certificate from most other states. Your son could take a course in Iowa for example, and Wisconsin would accept that. Or he can take the course in Minnesota and again, Wisconsin will accept that.
The issue of what Minnesota requires of their boaters, is of no relevance to Wisconsin.
 
Dave is right on here. It is, however, possible that the law exempts out-of-state residents. Here in the nanny state of CT for instance, the Safe Boating Certificate regulation pertains only to CT residents. The Personal Watercraft (jetski) reg is for everybody.
 
Mark,


I don't see this as being "unclear" at all. Your son falls into the age which requires a boating certificate, period. Wisconsin recognizes and accepts, a completion certificate from most other states. Your son could take a course in Iowa for example, and Wisconsin would accept that. Or he can take the course in Minnesota and again, Wisconsin will accept that.
The issue of what Minnesota requires of their boaters, is of no relevance to Wisconsin.

I don't think this is entirely accurate Dave. Let's say he is fishing on the St. Croix, or Mississippi river. He can fish either side of the river with one or the other licenses - he doesn't need both. What about boating on a border water?

I hear what you are saying, and like I said earlier I am making him take a course (anyone know where the boating course is free - he can use that certificate for WI) but I just want to know.

It is like the trailering laws in MN. Anyone trailering a boat through MN is REQUIRED to remove the plug(s). It is to stop invasive species I get it. What if I'm driving from Vermont to North Dakota and passing through MN. How in the world am I suppose to know the law regarding the plug?

Stupid rules really bother me. Did you know that to rent a boat in WI you need to complete a boaters safety course. But you would be wrong thinking it is the same course everyday boaters need to take. It is quicker, and cheaper. Tell me how this makes sense if the reason the State is so concerned about safe boating there are multiple levels of compliance to be certified as safe?

Mark
 
Mark,
You are making this much harder than it actually is. Fishing regulations have NOTHING to do with boating regulations. Trying to draw a correlation between the two is the same as comparing apples to oranges.
 
Mark,
You are making this much harder than it actually is. Fishing regulations have NOTHING to do with boating regulations. Trying to draw a correlation between the two is the same as comparing apples to oranges.

I don't think I am. Already said I am making him take a boating safety course, I just want to understand the reason behind it and I have learned it comes down to making money (I have that shocked look on my face). Lots of reasons have led me to this conclusion that I won't go into here right now. This is what bothers me - it is more about the money than the boating safety. By money I mean money collected from course fees, and limiting payouts on liability claims.

And I do not completely agree with you comment on fishing and boating being completely different. If I am fishing border waters, at least in MN my fishing license allows me to fish WI border waters without a WI license. If I am fishing from a boat and am going back and forth on both sides of the line down the middle of the waters, do I need to have a license to drive the boat on the WI side? My MN fishing license, and the MN boating rules work on the WI side, why not the boat safety requirements? Anyway....

I found a work around on the license fee. WI will accept any safety coarse that was approved by the NASBLA. Many States, including Iowa, offer free online NASBLA approved courses to get your safety cert. I'll just have our son take the Iowa free course to get his safety certificate.

Mark
 
My understanding is that all states basically require safety training recognized by the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators and recognized by the US Coast Guard to operate a boat with a motor larger than a 25 hp motor. So I think the simplest answer is the one you already gave as your first answer: make him take the class.
 
Mark,

You keep adding to your story and throwing in "red herrings".

If you wish to talk fishing regulations consult the fishing regulations. If you have a question about boating regulations, consult the boating regulations. I highly doubt the boating regulation you are asking about in your original post, is dependent on the presence or lack thereof of fishing equipment.

In your first post you were concerned with operating a boat in "Wisconsin waters". Now you are referencing "border waters" as defined in the fishing regulations. As you well know, "border waters" are indeed treated by their own set of rules in the FISHING regulations.

As to the question if boating regulations treat "border water" with their own set of rules, I don't know but suspect there is no distinction in the boating regs. It may well be that "border waters" are exempt and that "non residents" are exempt. If that is the case, I would think it would be clearly spelled out in the boating regulations.
 
I'm just asking questions about regulations. And I can tell you there is no such thing as it being clearly spelled out.

And I am throwing in border waters and fishing as the rules change again. Why does not one set of rules cover all of boating? I'm in a crummy fowl mood and reading up on this didn't help.

Here is what I have learned. Not every State requires a safety license to operate a boat. MN has no requirement, WI requires it. Then as you read further they say you have to take a coarse that is recognized either by the Coast Guard or the NASBLA. All fine and dandy. The coarse you take for the WI license is not administered by the State of WI, they send you to a for profit site that charges $30. The coarse taught is the exact same as is given free by the 501k non profit organization Boat US (https://www.boatus.org/free/) No one tells you this. WI recognizes any safety certificate that has the approval of the NASBLA. Here is where it gets really funny.

When you go to the non profit site, you are asked to chose the state in which you can get the certificate. Wisconsin is not listed nor is MN. I can understand MN as we don't require it but why is WI not listed? My bet is because they have an agreement with Boat Ed (for profit company) that probably requires WI to send the coarse taker to them and WI gets a piece of the pie so to speak. WI wouldn't make any money if they would be on the page of the non profit.

Then when you go to the Boat ed page, one of the States you can chose to take the required class is MN. Wait a minute, MN does not require you to have a safety certificate if you are over 21 so why is MN on the for profit site I wonder?

And then I read more and find out that if you are just going to be renting a boat in WI, you have to get a safety certificate as well. For some reason it isn't the same as the normal safety certificate. The class is shorter, the fee less, and the test shorter. Oh, and you can retake the test as many times as you want within quick succession until you pass. Shouldn't all boaters be equally tried and safe? And I would put out there that if a person can't pass the test within 10 times maybe they are not smart enough to be driving a boat right?

So, my story is WI is not concerned about safe boating as they are about making and saving money. This makes me sick. If they really cared about safe boating, direct people to the NASBLA free site and make the renters take the exact same coarse they require of anyone else. I mean it is all about safety right?

Didn't mean to start an argument. My son and daughter are both going to be taking the class. They have both been driving the boat this summer as we didn't know they had to get a safety certificate.

Don't get me going on boat registration.....

Mark
 
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He's my take on it. Most states have reciprocating laws. Your son is a resident of MN and is 21. Your state doesn't require a certificate. He should be fine running the boat anywhere (in my opinion). If still in doubt call your local CO and ask them. As far as fishing is concerned I can fish the Mississippi River from bank to bank with my IL license. Hunting, the law is different requiring me to purchase an out of state license to hunt that same area. Makes no sense to me but I don't make the laws. I buy an IA license every year.

BTW in IL residents have to have a certificate of completion to operate a watercraft with a motor of 10hp or more if you were born after January 1 1998.

From the IL site.
Reciprocity
For visiting boaters, all states, territories, and provinces will recognize boating education cards that meet NASBLA requirements and Canadian Pleasure Craft Operator Cards that meet Transport Canada’s requirements. (This is known as “reciprocity.”)

Again just my opinon.
 
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Unfortunately, most boaters fail to understand basic common law rules of nautical navigation as well as the rules for NO WAKE! although N.H. requires certificates for anything 25 hp and above yahoo's break the rules continuously and it's Sallust ass hats with new boats.
Live Free Or Die,,,,
 
A person born before January 1, 1989, is exempt from the safety course requirement. that should clear the air
 
A person born before January 1, 1989, is exempt from the safety course requirement. that should clear the air

David,
Mark's son ( the operator in question) is 21 years old. Therefore must have been born several years AFTER the 1989 exemption cutoff. Or am I missing something?
 
Well Dave, since I graduated high school in 1989 and I've only been out of school nine yearsars I think you might be mistaken
 
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Well Dave, since I graduated high school in 1989 and I've only been out of school nine yearsars I think you might be mistaken


Phil,

According to my calendar it is presently 2017. Marks son is 21 year old. 2017 minus 21 equals a birth year of 1996 which is AFTER 1989. The exemption applies to folks born BEFORE 1989.

Now as to how many years since your graduation; 2017 minus 1989 equals 28 since you graduated. BTW what was the name of the school you attended.

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