Cackler adjustments

M

mike Warichak

Member
Due to a hectic schedule I won't be able to start my Cackler or Snow Goose project (still undecided) until Sept.. I'm hoping for some input on a couple questions I have in regards to the boats. I have built a BBIII and poleboat before so I have some experience. My main question is the motorwell on the Cackler, what are the advantages or disadvantages to keeping it in or taking it out all together???? I've noticed many other reader rigs that have been leaving it out. Another question is how to adjust the plans to make the Cackler 16 ft. instead of 14 ft. David Clark's additional 10' to the beam also looked great. But I really don't have an idea as to how to adjust the plans.. Thanks for any advice.
Mike
 
I thank you both for the quick responses. One other question I have is about the draft of either boat with a good load in it. I've seen Devlin's specs but I'd like to hear some personel experience. Sometimes I'm carrying nothing more than a set of marsh ski's, dog and decoys but the next day can see double or triple the gear depending on where we are hunting. Flowages, Horicon marsh or the Mississippi River. Versitility is huge for me. This is why I've been thinking of the hyperdrive motor.

Thanks again, the help here is invaluable...
 
I would be very concerned with the snowgoose hull and a short tail. Contrary to the glowing comments above, ALL snowgeese (read: every damn one) porpoise horribly without adjustments to the hull. These adjustments usually come in the form of wedges that are installed at the rear of the boat to alter the hull bottom (think shingles glued to the bottom [thick end back] to remove some of the effect of the rocker in the hull), trim tabs would do the same thing (ouch).

Given the history of the snowgoose as far as teh rocker and being tough to get the porpoising under control, I would steer clear of it for a hyperdrive boat.

T
 
I wouldn't expect anything less from a nosy bitch such as yourself... keep up the good work.
 
Mike ,

Like Andrew had said i built the Cackler to the plan with a few exception the 1st would be moving the motor all the way to the stern of the boat and adding the splash well , i like the idea of having more room in the cockpit area since i do alot of fishing as well as hunting . under the well in the back i can store about 8 decoys . The other modification i made was to add the " Snow Goose" lip to the front deck , this has been a great asset to the Cackler and has proven it's worth on just about every trip i take . I also moved my 6 gal gas tank to the front compartment , even though i loose a little bit of the compartment i built what we call the " Gibson Gas Shelf" this allows the tank to sit up off the hull and allows for storage under the shelf for say 2 folding anchors and rope . I wish you alot of luck with the build whatever you decide to do you will have a boat that will last a lifetime . GOOD LUCK !!


Dave M
 
I put wedges on during the construction process, therefore I never experienced porpoising. Some wait until the construction process is over, scare the hell out of themselves and then apply them - why? I'll never know. The Cackler plans show wedges directly on the plans. Most Devlin designs porpoise.

To answer you question, the Snow Goose draws about 6-7 inches, it feels like less, but the plans say 7 inches so I'll go with that.

Dave's Cackler draws about the same.
 
To address the question as to which boat for a hyperdrive, given Andrews new informatiom (that the cackler has a good amount of rocker and needs wedges), I would say NEITHER boat would be a good choice for the short tail. Given the performance requirements of a shotttail and the rockered hulls power hungry lower speeds, I think you would be very unhappy with either.

As an aside to Andrew, the reason not to add the wedges in the beginning with a snowgoose is that the process of optimization is important to obtain best performance. If you just slap some random wedge on from the start and call it done, rather than using a sequencial process based on trial and error you have no idea if the performance is optimized.

Finally, to respond to Andrew, not all Devlins porpoise. I can't think of a BBIII that does, BBII's are mixed and the Honker is not supposed to.

Tod
 
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My free advice doesn't make me a "bad person" Tod ; ) The Cackler plans that I received (and returned) had a drawing of wedges on it. I don't think I made that up, and I didn't say that it had a rocker.

Your dinkish online personality just makes people pissed which is too bad because you're actually a really good guy in person.
 
Andrew,

I'm not sure where you are coming from from on the reference to you being a "bad person". I do think you are a bit overloyal to the snowgoose and as a result a little less than objective in its evaluation. The information that the cackler has a hull that needs wedges is great information I didn't have. Don't sell yourself short, you are a great resource here.

T
 
Tod, the point is this. In my experience, the SG and the Cackler perform beautifully, and the reason why I crow about them so much is because when I was searching for a boat design, it was difficult to find real world performance evaluations. I sing their praises for the new people not the DB forum veterans.

How about Dave and I meet you in CT and you can try our boats, maybe they perform differently than yours... I built the hull to spec other than; 1) more degreeage on the transom (I think from 8 to 14 degrees), and, 2) the outboard keels go all the way to the bow. I wasn't scientific the way that you and Eric were vis the wedges, but the boat doesn't porpoise at high speed and the slow speed/ high wave config works well, so I got lucky.

Re the "bad person" comment, I'm kidding... my skin is thicker than that. In case anyone is wondering, Tod spent hours and hours with me teaching me how to build my boat for which I am forever grateful.
 
Andrew,

I have no doubt that your and Dave's boats perform wonderfully with a conventional outboard on the coast of RI(mine performs wonderfully as well). My comments were on the application of a hyperdrive to these boats in WI.

Singing the praises is fine, but you have to consider what the person wants. Experiances in RI with an outboard don't translate to WI with a hyperdrive. Apples to apples.

T
 
With what has been said here and in private messages I've received, I'm going to stay away from the hyperdrive motor.

I'm going to go with the SnowGoose. I already have a 40hp 4stroke Merc waiting for it.

I'm picking the SnowGoose based on the carry capacity and low draft. My BBIII performed better than I ever could of expected but I was tired of pulling a skiff behind it with the extra 10dozen or so decoys.. Also would have to make multiple trips when doing combo camping/hunting trips on northwoods flowages..

A couple of other random questions..

Have any of you added an extra layer of glass to the hull for additional support??? I'm considering this as well..

What does changing the transom angle do?? I've never delt with the 'tabs' before. They are on the Cackler plans I have but not on the SnowGoose. I get a little leary freelancing with such expensive materials..
Again, thanks for all the opinions and advice..
 
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Mike, my buddy and I built a Snow Goose with other than a side console no changes to the plans, about three years ago. We use it for duck hunting so it's usually a medium to heavy load. We use a 40 hp Mariner 2-stroke for power and get up on a plane no problem. Before reading this discussion I never knew porpoising was a problem, it hasn't been with our boat.

Now I'm building a Cackler. I noticed the little wedges on the plan that Andrew mentions. I plan on lengthening the boat to a little over 15' and adding four inched to the beam. My inclination was to leave the wedges off until I test drove it, but it might be a hassle to haul the boat out, sand the paint off in that area and epoxy test wedges on, so I don't know. I was a racing and cruising sailor for decades annd any non-fair bumps or protrubances really bug me.

Can anybody explain how rocker effects porpoising, and if this is a problem with Garveys in general? I know a lot of power boats have trim tabs and this wedge is just a form of trim tab, so I maybe it isnt a problem just a charachteristic.

Thanks,

John
 
Since, I've been running my mouth... The rocker in teh hulls are put there to make the hull perform as a displacement hull in the low speeds to get the bow high out of the water for safety and there theoritically is little enough to that the hull will also plane. The problem is that getting this balance is tough too much and you will have a displacement hull and too little no benefit. The downside is that the rockered hull when on plane has the tendency to porpoise because it doesn't have the long flat area of a typical planing hull.

My snowgoose was amazing without alterations and porpoised vololently at 1/2-3/4 throttle, I was never able to get to full throttle withough alterations. Those that Devlin has built porpoised and have wedges, Andrew put wedges on his prior to testing. John Burbon built a snowgoose without wedges, but to my knowledge never had enough motor on it to see porpoising. Your buddies boat given the center console must have enough weight forward. Can I ask a question about max speed and trim attitude? Is his motor trimmed way down and what does he get for speed? I get 30 with a light load and 22 with 2 guys, tons of decoy weight, kicker, dawg, dinged prop, etc...

I agree on the aesthetics of wedges, they are aweful.
 
Mike,

On the two layers, I put 5 ounce kevlar under my glass. I have scraped a number of times where I cut the glass, but stop and ride on the on the kevlar without cutting. I would do it again if I built another wood duck boat, but I persoally would build out of alum to do it again in my area. I think it added 200 bucks.

T
 
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instead of those goofy little wooden door stops you could OPTIMIZE performance AT ALL SPEEDS.....wouldn't that be interesting....

Just a thought from the "nosy bitch"

Steve, GET THE LEAD OUT, Sutton
 
Hi Todd,

Thanks for the reply, that clears things up. I think maybe we never porpoised because we never ran at that high of a speed. Since it is a duck boat and the farthest we have to travel is about 5-6 miles, and the boat is such an upgrade in size and power over our old 14' Lund with 20 hp Mercury, its seems plenty fast to us. We really never speed tested it even though I have a hand held GPS. Now that it is Summer we should take the boat out and test it at high speed, but now I'm afraid of the porpoise issue.
 
Steve,

Twice in the past couple days find you participating in a porpoising thread, a rare sight indeed. Just when you have me warmed up to alum manually adjustible ones, now you are talking electronic?!?!?

You know anything about sage grouse states?

T
 
Hi Todd,

Thanks for the reply, that clears things up. I think maybe we never porpoised because we never ran at that high of a speed. Since it is a duck boat and the farthest we have to travel is about 5-6 miles, and the boat is such an upgrade in size and power over our old 14' Lund with 20 hp Mercury, its seems plenty fast to us. We really never speed tested it even though I have a hand held GPS. Now that it is Summer we should take the boat out and test it at high speed, but now I'm afraid of the porpoise issue.
Click to expand...


J,

I'd be interested in what you find out.

T
 
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