CRP and Ethanol

Rick Kyte

Rick Kyte

Well-known member
Last week I was at the Wisconsin State Council of Trout Unlimited meeting and saw a presentation by Curt Meine, the biographer of Aldo Leopold. It was titled "What Would Aldo Leopold think about Corn Ethanol?" An interesting side note: Meine mentioned that he had been reviewing records of conferences on ethanol production around the country for the past two years. Nobody who works in the environmental sciences has been a speaker at any of them.

Here's a link to an earlier version of his presentation: http://www.agroecology.wisc.edu/view/seminars/seminars/fall_2006_meine

It's relevant to the discussion about CRP refunding below.

Rick
 
Rick,
My .02
Congress mandated that all the fuel additives for gasoline starting??2007 or 2008 were all to be ethanol based. Big oil then had a reason to support ethanol and through it's lobbies pushed enhancements etc. through to help with funding. We all know with 4.00 corn no one will be able to afford ethanol so the talk is about fermenting grasses, pasture, etc. to help with the production of ethanol (not just corn) Heck, George Washington Carver fermented sweet potatoes to make ethanol. From the farmers stand point the fuel that makes the most sense is Bio diesel. Soy oil can be extracted much cheaper and with a lot less energy expended than ethanol and most diesel engines can run on it without any major modifications. Bio diesel is in direct competition to Big oil so, although it is more enviornmentally friendly since the oil companies don't have to use it and it competes against them I see them fighting it as long as they can keep the general population believing that diesel is dirty and only for big trucks. Now what will happen to bio diesel when soy beans hit $10?? Supply and demand will sort all this out but in the future we're all going to be paying more to fill up than we are now.
 
If Ethanol is the future, (I personally don't think it's the answer) from what I've read switchgrass makes more sense than corn.

Hitch
 
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Certainly the market will sort some things out, but the market always gives more weight to short-term direct costs than long-term indirect costs.

As an example, look at slide #72 and the diagram of the hypoxic zone in the Gulf of Mexico. Probably 80% or so of the biomass production is going to come from land draining into the Mississippi. Nobody is looking at the likely effects of erosion from converting CRP lands on a mass scale.

That's why Meine refers to the present as an "1870s" moment. We could be headed towards ecological disaster similar to what happened in the heydey of the logging boom.
 
Our long term solution is going to be Hydrogen. This means nuclear power in order to generate enough energy to produce gas in a economical way. Ethanol will be a short term solution. The greenies or anti nuclear people concerned about the environment caused more harm to the environment because of the CO2 produced by coal. This country was built on cheap energy. Without cheap energy this country could become a third world country in a generation. We worry about the Middle East because of energy. If we didn't depend on them for energy we would be out of there in a heart beat. Polical will on both sides of the isle to go against special interests and think of the long term, what's best for this country.
 
To begin with ethanol plants are not being built to save our country or the environment but to make money. So what we may like to see won't happen unless there is money in it....thats the american way.
Switchgrass does sound good from a conservation perspective. From what I understand it not only is better for the soil it takes less energy to raise, harvest and process. Corn uses a lot of petroleum to produce, mainly fertilizer. The one problem, and it is a big one, is right now switchgrass would take a lot more land to produce the amount of ethanol corn produces. I don't see farmers planting $2,000/acre land in grass any time soon. Might be a great crop for marginal land but nobody is building plants to process cellulose like they are for corn.
It's kind of like Microsoft, there may be a lot of other better alternatives but it will be hard to knock the established top product from it's position.

Tim
 
I guess one of the many things that blows me away is how fast this is happening. I believe there 6 plants being built within 70 miles of my house. They're popping up everywhere. I don't think it's the answer either frankly but we have to start somewhere. I just don't think this is the best place to do it.

One thing that surprised me recently was the fact that you get roughly half the mileage out of a gallon of E-85. They better make those tanks big in the dual fuel vehicles.

The implications for CRP are not good that's for sure.
 
It's not only the CRP that is being lost with the high crop prices and the ethanol/ bio-diesel boom. Here in the rural areas of eastern Iowa I'm seeing a lot of fence rows, small timber and brushy areas along the creeks and waterways being cleared to make more crop land. I think we're going to see a large loss of habitat this year, and along with that water quality issues due to increased erosion from the clearing of these buffer zones.

Jim S
 
Corn isn't the answer. It's just that there is a production and marketing system already in place waiting for a market. Just about any source of carbon can be used for ehtanol production. I know sugar beet growers are also looking at this as a new big market. Ultimately, a perennial crop will be the most profitable. But, with ethanol only being a stop-gap until the next wave it is hard to determine how much time and money will be spent on alternative production systems.

Tom
 
Do some reading about what they are doing in India. They are converting everything they can to Biodiesel. The product they are using as the base for this is.......HEMP!!!

Guess it has something to do with the molecular arrangement and such that it actually has better value than switchgrass, easier to grow, perennial crop and takes less engery to grow and process than corn. On the other side, it is also used extensively for the basis of paper products since it actually has better fibers for making paper than actual trees. Talk with any of the paper industry experts (Live in Paper Valley...otherwise known as the Fox River Valley in WI) an you will run into them everywhere, they all are pushing for the government to repell the limitations on the growth of hemp since it is an easier crop to grow/harvest than trees...

Should be interesting what happens in the next several years, but seriously look at what India is doing as a good model of what actually has been working.
 
Probably have to have the Army guard the crop. The government grew hemp in my county during WW2 for rope and other stuff and it was funny when you read the papers back in the 60's and 70's about people getting busted for picking the ditch weed..it was all over the place!
 
Lee,

it still is...

Back when I was in college, I worked for the County Dept in the summer. They (DEA) had a "Drug round up" They had us go along railroads, old logging roads etc and places like that looking for weed. Collected it all up and hauled it to an old quarry. The DEA guys then lit the pile on fire......THEY all stood down wind.....not allowing any of us to join in....

They also busted several guys who were coming to check on their "stash"

last I heard, they still round it up yearly since the stuff comes back so readily, which speaks to the point of it being a perennial crop...
 
Hydrogen that they mainly use now comes from the liquification of coal. Tremendous amount of cost and energy used to produce it now, if gas stayed around 3-3.50/gallon, then Hydrogen starts becoming economical.

they need to find a new way to extract it effectively and with a cost savings.
 
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