Leave it to Kalifornia!

Dave Parks

Dave Parks

Well-known member
Well, they are at it again down in Kalifornia. More unreasonable requirements on the horizon for Kalifornia residents in proposals to:

1. New law that would require everyone in the State to have their dogs spayed or neutered or face hefty fines. Exceptions for breeders and show dogs if you register them and pay an annual undisclosed fee.

2. A new proposed ban on ALL bullets shot from a rifle that have ANY lead in them.

3. A new proposal to ban the use of lead sinkers along with the requirement that all new sinkers must be bio-degradable.

What a great place to live, if you own a sun-tan parlor or a Starbucks. But if you are an outdoorsman the State has lost touch with reality, must be Hollywood rubbing off on everyone.

Dave
 
to be as "lead free" as hunters are. Losing any bird, or animal, to lead poisioning just because fishermen haven't been required to go "non-toxic" like duck hunters have is simply ludicrous....and especially so when the product to replace lead wts. is already available....

I also got no problem with the State, who ultimately becomes both fiscally and legally responsible for the removal, both temporary and permenant, of feral animals who become a nuisance to people, pets, and wildlife just because the original owner is too damned sorry to take the responsibility of their own pets, stepping in and forcing ownerst o take responsibility. I'm for it and the result will be a whole lot fewer "homeless" pets for the State to have to pay to euthanize.

Since I don't know anything about "alternatives" to the "no lead in rifle bullets" issue I don't know how I feel about that one.....Seems like a small problem when you think of individual bullets but when you add it up I'd bet thats one hell of a whack of lead piling up in places.

Wave of the future my friend. If Ducks can die from eating spent lead pellets then so can Dove's and Snipe and Quail, etc. etc. and since good steel loads for Upland are available for everything now at "reasonable" prices why shouldn't it get used? Hunters aren't going to make the change on their own so its up to some "progressive" State to force it....Same thing with the "mandatory spaying" issue......I'll agree that the lead in rifle bullets might be going too far but I congratulate California for their progressive thinking on the other items, and would bet that others will follow.....

Steve
 
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THANKS LOU..........
now I have that commercial with the little old lady saying " it's got real chunks of GRa-nOOOOLA in it,you like those" stuck in my head.....
 
THANKS LOU..........
now I have that commercial with the little old lady saying " it's got real chunks of GRa-nOOOOLA in it,you like those" stuck in my head.....
Click to expand...

So......at least something sticks in your head. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....way to easy, couldn't resist.

Also..........so, a Southern boy with something stuck "in" your head instead of onto it. :)

I know there are going to be paybacks on those statements but they were just way too easy.........I do "easy" good.
Lou
 
Steve,

The rifle bullet issue is primarily related to condors and other raptors. Most of the condor mortality have resulted from condors feeding on gut piles and ingesting spent bullets and dying of lead poisoning.

Clint
 
being Environmentally Responsible shouldn't be equated to being some kind of "nut case" from a Liberal State......

I'm sure that there's some alternative to lead in rifle bullets and if its ballistically equivelant, or better, then "in my opinion", it something that responsible hunters should want to see happen, not bitch and moan about......

Steve
 
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Steve,

I believe the better part of all of us that hunt and fish are environmently responsible. I'm sure that most of us retrieve more waste than we bring with us in persuing our hobbies. I have no problem with alternatives to lead in everything. There are more and more states getting on the band wagon. With this in mind we need to require the products we import from developing industrial countries such as China take such a stand on being environmentaly responsible. I'm afraid that battle will be the tough one to win.

Ed L.
 
outdoors care about the outdoors but I also believe that we often tend to have "knee jerk" reactions to changes that cause "rebellion" to change.....

I don't think that anyone these days doesn't beleive that lead poisioning isn't a problem....and if you do believe it then if you think about it how can you think that swapping out lead fishing wts., and if possible lead in rifle bullets, is a "bad" idea and that only ultra Liberal, Hollywood types would ever think of such a thing.....

That said I think that hunters, and fishermen, often have to be "forced" to change the way they think and act, (just like they had to be forced to re-think shooting every Hawk and Owl), and that at least that first generation that endures the change will fight it as a "loss of rights" until the day they die. Human nature I guess.

Agree completely with your "thinking Globally" comment but we've got a long way to go at home in changing environmental attitudes before we can expect emerging countries to "do as we do, and not as we say". After all we're the people that ship batteries and computers to 3rd World countries because we don't want them in our landfills, or our citizens handling them, and then buy back the recycled metals after kids have stripped them out while squatting on bare dirt.....

Steve
 
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Barnes Bullets are pure copper...and are supposed to be the cats ass..I never could get them to shoot that great in my reloads. I can see doing a proposed ban geographically on certain "old school" products that may be harmful in specific ways. Why not ban high tension wires above ground? How many Eagles and hawks are electricuted each year? I guess the answer is money...all it costs is money...same with the squatting dirt rats stripping batteries..money..just money.
 
to be as "lead free" as hunters are. Losing any bird, or animal, to lead poisioning just because fishermen haven't been required to go "non-toxic" like duck hunters have is simply ludicrous....and especially so when the product to replace lead wts. is already available....
Click to expand...
Well we will see how bad this sounds after I post it. "Losing any bird..."? I've seen more dead birds near windows and power lines then I have ever shot. If any bird is too much then what about every other way birds die because of human activity. While I don't disagree with you that we need to be thoughtful about what we are putting into the environment I do not believe worrying about every death of an animal is realistic. It just isn't going to help.
Maybe there is more new info but the last time I looked at the lead and fishing 'problem' it was very area specific. The only places that saw problems were those with certain bottom types that were not wide spread.
I have no idea what good replacements are available. Tin and tungsten are not much help. One is not very heavy and the other costs enough to make it a limiting factor to who may fish. I know the bass boat guys can lose a buck or two a shot worm weight all day but the kids fishing in the local river can't. Sorry but if it is a choice between 'any bird or animal' or future fishermen I will error on the side of the kids doing something other then playing video games and texting.
I think we get too caught up on if animals die or don't because of what we do. They do and we are not going to change that. Actual real data that shows if it is harming populations is more important such as the condors eating lead in dead animals. If areas with condors needs to go lead free that's fine, there are all cooper bullets that are very good (much better then steel shot). They do cost more but the area involved and the shots fired it would probably not make it a burden.
I'm not saying just shove our heads in the sand and not look what effects we have. I'm just saying that the bird hit by a car or killed by feral cats are just as dead and likely greatly outnumber those killed by lead. A complete view and a realistic look at what we do every day is more important.
Tim
 
well as a farmer i happen to have time on my hands while waiting for the milkers to come off the cows so i do some reading. well the magazine that seems to always be at the barn via my dads subscription is first freedom and that other nra magazine. the no lead bullets thing coming out off cali is supposed to be a front to shut down the gun ranges in that state. the idea is to make the availability of legal bullets little to none or too expensive so that people will stop using the shooting clubs and ranges forcing them out of business, with the under current that the lead buildup in the dirt backstops is leaching into the water.

now i dont know how reliable that story is but it would make sense that anti gunners would do things that way. as far as lead sinkers i totally agree with steve, and i think that all pets should be controlled in that manner unless you apply for a permit to breed for hunting dogs or shows dogs and what not.

however i think we should lay some tnt along the cali state line and make it an island separate from the rest of this country. that way george strait can have his ocean front property in arizona

eddie
 
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Steve, the non-lead rifle bullet thing is just another anti-hunting shot at hunter's. If you stop and think about the odds of a deer hunter shooting a deer in a condor area and not recovering the deer and on top of that, what do you think the odds of a condor actually finding that animal, the odds of a bullet still being in the carcass and the odds of a condor actually eating a bullet fragment? It's just another attempt at ending hunting in California by anti-hunters adn it does not take much of a shove to make a liberal non-hunter thing that condors are in a great risk and die weekly from lead bullet ingestion...Bullcrap does not have anything to do with saving a condor. To be anti-hunting is politically correct today, ask anyone in 2/3rds of Sacremento's Capital or Hollyweird.

The dog spaying thing is a nice thing to hope for but in reality less than 30% will do it and the vets are the only ones that will make money on it. The dog pound will still be full of dogs waiting to be snuffed and illegal aliens will most likely be exempt do to the new "welcome over the fence" amnisty laws.

Kalifornia already has non-lead sinkers, NOW they want them to be bio-degradable!

If they really want to do something for Kalifornia, then snuff the last remaining condors (which will never make it anyway) and divert all thesoe millions of dollars into cancer research.

I sure the hell don't miss any of the dinasaurs, even if I did know some of them personally!

Dave
 
...since I haven't been around much lately.

"Non lead bullets" - I didn't know there was such a thing. I shoot my shotguns mostly and I think I only have non-lead shot around the house with the exception of a half dozen boxes left over from the skeet or sporting clays range.What are the alternatives? Tungsten or any of the typical non-toxics would be pretty expensive. Copper too. People will start breaking into Cabelas to steal the bullets and turn them in for $3 a pound. I need to be educated on this one.

"Spayed dogs" - Ok. It makes sense from a responsibility point of view, but I don't want to be told to do it by the Dog Police. Use their (Dog Policemen) paychecks to do it...or better yet, use their paychecks to pay a reward for every doggie that gets a vasectomy paid for by the people who insist that they get one. If you're outraged about an issue and insist on your opinion becoming policy, get out your checkbook first. If you want something bad enough, you'll help pay for it too. Otherwise, quiet down.

"Bio-degradable sinkers" - I'm from Michigan and I can visulaize two kinds of sinkers. The BA honkin' salmon downrigger cannonballs which are usually covered in that rubber stuff so they don't tear up your gunnel and it seems like they are safely sealed up against lead leeching into Lake Huron. The other ones are split shot, those cool little pyramids etc. and if you are using them around here you basically are using anything heavier than a worm or a minnow. Ok, so is a nail considered to be bio-degradable? Ultimately? As long as its steel? I know I am not going to buy an $8 sinker so I am just asking...
 
Could we cut chunks out of the 700 million scrap steel belted radials that decorate the countryside just waiting to catch on fire? Everything that comes from the Earth is carcinogenic to some degree. I just can not fathom that fishing sinkers promote a serious threat to animals or birds, or fish. I would think a tungsten matrix sinker would be more dangerous because of the broken teeth that would occur from biting them to crimp them on the line. I just orderd some "Nice Shot" tungsten shot to try out in my 28 for ducks..they have sinkers available too.
 
Steve,

Point taken! I just sent 5 computers, an old microwave and a tv to the recyclers thinking I was doing my part not even thinking about were they were going and who was stripping them. I also agree that we do need to be slapped in the face sometimes just like when we all bitched about having to use non-toxic shot. In just the past few years we're required to use non-toxic shot over state regulated Dove fields. How many doves die from lead shot? The way I've been shooting the last couple of years I can tell you not many. Seriously it's not about how many birds die from ingesting lead rather than how much leeches into our ground water. Unforunatley in the Mississippi valley herbicides, pesticides, nitrates and ammonium's are higher on the cotaminent list than lead. Yep, the stuff that grows our food.

Living on the Mississippi River we get warnings every summer about ingesting fish. I still eat fish but not nearly as much as when I was a kid. Now if you want to read some scary stuff here's a couple of links pertaining to the Mississippi River.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/circ1133/index.html
http://airandaqua.com/water_warning_river.shtmld

Ed L.
 
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