snake avoidance classes...

tod osier

tod osier

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Would like to get Beaver started off on the right foot and have some Western adventures planned. Anyone have a suggestion of a snake avoidance class/trainer in the Northeast or in one of the northern Western states (SD, ND, MT, WY, CO). I'm having a hard time finding someone outside of AZ and wasn't planning to get that far south this summer.
 
Well, if you were heading this far south I have a few references. I started out by calling veterinarians around town when I began looking for a snake avoidance class.

I have used Horizon Veterinary services in Lewistown, MT and they are a great veterinarian clinic. You might give them a call and see what they have to say.

Another option is to check with local dog training clubs as that is where I first had Drake snake proofed and his was done at a pointy dog club (my Quail Forever chapter just put on a clinic this year where I took Belle for a refresher since the first class...put on by a local herpetologist... didn't seem to take with her).

Have you considered giving Beaver the snake vaccine? For the first series it is a two shot vaccine, two weeks apart I believe. After that it a one shot annual booster. It won't immunize the dog from snake venom but according to many vets out west, it often gives dogs extra time to get to the vet (out west that is good) and often the dogs need fewer antivenom vials (very expensive). There is a lot of controversy surrounding the effectiveness of the shot, so do some reading (if you haven't already done so). My vet doesn't give it here in FL (it is more for western diamondback venom) but I can get it from the vet clinics that are put on by Tractor Supply. I just have to call ahead of time and request the shot. The way I look at it is that $25 for the shot is not wasted if it potentially gives me the extra time to get my dogs to the vet if they get bit. Luckily, I have not had to test it (came close with Belle in MT).
 
Dani said:
Well, if you were heading this far south I have a few references. I started out by calling veterinarians around town when I began looking for a snake avoidance class.

I have used Horizon Veterinary services in Lewistown, MT and they are a great veterinarian clinic. You might give them a call and see what they have to say.

Another option is to check with local dog training clubs as that is where I first had Drake snake proofed and his was done at a pointy dog club (my Quail Forever chapter just put on a clinic this year where I took Belle for a refresher since the first class...put on by a local herpetologist... didn't seem to take with her).

Have you considered giving Beaver the snake vaccine? For the first series it is a two shot vaccine, two weeks apart I believe. After that it a one shot annual booster. It won't immunize the dog from snake venom but according to many vets out west, it often gives dogs extra time to get to the vet (out west that is good) and often the dogs need fewer antivenom vials (very expensive). There is a lot of controversy surrounding the effectiveness of the shot, so do some reading (if you haven't already done so). My vet doesn't give it here in FL (it is more for western diamondback venom) but I can get it from the vet clinics that are put on by Tractor Supply. I just have to call ahead of time and request the shot. The way I look at it is that $25 for the shot is not wasted if it potentially gives me the extra time to get my dogs to the vet if they get bit. Luckily, I have not had to test it (came close with Belle in MT).
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We were on a walk yesterday and there was a snapping turtle on the road that the dog just had to put his nose right on, so that got me thinking.

Thanks Dani, it seems that there are plenty of folks out there that do it, I just haven't cracked the code on who does it. Did Horizon do one for you?

I've had my dogs on the Red Rock vaccine in the past. Our old vet used to charge out the nose for the shot and boosters, so that kind of soured me on it knowing that it is cheap. The tractor supply angle is crazy, I'll have to check it out. I may try to have it done out west this summer, but I'll for sure get a price from our current vet and check out tractor supply.
 
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Horizon gave Drake and B their shots one year, but not the snake class. We also stopped up in SD and met with Joe Spoo at his vet clinic and got their shots there one year. Joe might have some ideas on snake breaking classes in the SD area. I can shoot him a text and ask him if you'd like.

My vet would have ordered the snake vaccine for me but he couldn't order just two shots worth. He told me that I would have to pay for the whole shipment because he didn't think that he would be able to give the shots to anyone else's dogs. So through my vet it was obscene too. That's when I began searching around for other places to get the shot.

I think that the company that visits Tractor Supply is called PetVet. Or at least down here, that is the company. They also go to local drug stores once a month and Pet Supermarket. But there is always a Saturday PetVet clinic at Tractor Supply down here. Just make sure to call and let them know that you want the snake vaccine. It isn't a vaccine that they normally carry with them to their clinics (at least down here).
 
Dani said:
Horizon gave Drake and B their shots one year, but not the snake class. We also stopped up in SD and met with Joe Spoo at his vet clinic and got their shots there one year. Joe might have some ideas on snake breaking classes in the SD area. I can shoot him a text and ask him if you'd like.

My vet would have ordered the snake vaccine for me but he couldn't order just two shots worth. He told me that I would have to pay for the whole shipment because he didn't think that he would be able to give the shots to anyone else's dogs. So through my vet it was obscene too. That's when I began searching around for other places to get the shot.

I think that the company that visits Tractor Supply is called PetVet. Or at least down here, that is the company. They also go to local drug stores once a month and Pet Supermarket. But there is always a Saturday PetVet clinic at Tractor Supply down here. Just make sure to call and let them know that you want the snake vaccine. It isn't a vaccine that they normally carry with them to their clinics (at least down here).
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Gotya, All the classes I'm finding in the north are positive reinforcement, not e-collar training. Beaver is collar conditioned, I'm not interested in monkeying around. I haven't seen Joe around in a long time, that would be awesome if you would reach out to him. Great info, thanks.
 
I'll shoot him a note.

You might check with any local herpetologists with the university and see if they do snake classes.

All of the classes down here are using ecollars....too bad you're so far north...
 
Dani said:
I'll shoot him a note.

You might check with any local herpetologists with the university and see if they do snake classes.

All of the classes down here are using ecollars....too bad you're so far north...
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Here is a funny conditioning story for those following along. We walk a loop in the neighborhood daily and one of the farms has some pet cattle that Beaver is only mildly interested in. The other day one of the cows was doing something interesting and he went over to check it out and stepped on a loose tail of electrified fence tape. He now is highly suspicious of the one cow in particular, but they all make him nervous now, so we are working on training that cattle aversion away.
 
Carl said:
shocking story.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

sorry couldn't resist.
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IT WAS. I'm thinking of trying some positive reinforcement training with the cattle by smearing them with peanut butter. I already told him they were made of steak, but that didn't work.
 
tod osier said:
Here is a funny conditioning story for those following along. We walk a loop in the neighborhood daily and one of the farms has some pet cattle that Beaver is only mildly interested in. The other day one of the cows was doing something interesting and he went over to check it out and stepped on a loose tail of electrified fence tape. He now is highly suspicious of the one cow in particular, but they all make him nervous now, so we are working on training that cattle aversion away.
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HAHAHAHAH poor Beaver. Drake had a slightly different conditioning story regarding cattle. He met his first cow in WA....a big ol' ornery bull. Drake was quite interested in what that big dog was all about and the bull was not interested in getting to know Drake. Drake hauled ass back to me, the bull on his heels, and jumped into the truck and hid. After that, cattle were given a wide pass by him (which was fine by me) and he tended to keep me between him and any cattle in the area. In NE and MT, the cattle seemed to think Drake was one of their calves and they would follow us around, trying to steal Drake away. I've had a few stand offs with cattle over Drake. Only one involved me having to fire the shotgun to scare them off.
 
My upland pointy dog friends say that you should look up your local NAVHDA chapter and see if they provide classes and vaccine clinics. I checked mine and they do. They also said they do get the vaccine in addition to the training.
 
Brad Bortner said:
My upland pointy dog friends say that you should look up your local NAVHDA chapter and see if they provide classes and vaccine clinics. I checked mine and they do. They also said they do get the vaccine in addition to the training.
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Thanks brad I?ll probably do both, especially with my experience of Pete getting bit. Skeet had the shots, but not the breaking, but he wasn?t the kind of dog Pete was or beaver is.

I feel like I lucked out and found the ideal setup yesterday. In my research I found a couple people that offered programs like I wanted, but they were in az and ca. I found a guy in Utah that I really liked his approach and contacted him and it turns out he is offering a clinic in July in lander that I got on the list for. I like his approach that he takes his time with scent, sound and sight , the class takes a couple hours. Lot of clinics there is a snake in a bucket and they fry the dog, I?m sure that works, but a little more careful approach with the dog pre frying sounds good. Lot of classes use non rattlers I found.
 
It has already been talked about but make sure you have your dog vaccinated for rattlesnakes. Our vet here in Socorro told me that he has never lost a dog to snake bite for those that have had their shots. I know the first shot is given and then 30 days later they give the second vaccination. Then when year 2, then 3 etc.come along your dog will be given only 1 shot. If you decided to skip a year or two, then you go back to the original plan and your pup will have two shots 30 days apart.

I have heard the sad tales of hunters,whether that is dove, quail, or ducks only wishing that they would have had their dogs vaccinated. It is just not worth having to say, I should have, I could have and or I would have---
Al

The warmer it is normally the more aggressive the snake becomes. Remember with the nature of our wonderful dogs being with head down sniffing most dogs don't stand much of a chance fighting the venom of a western diamondback rattlesnake. The bites normally occur around the head and or neck.

T Mitch saved the day. This is the four footer that I inadvertently sat next to when hunting the early teal season. Thank God it was in the mid 40F so the snake stayed right where she was, which was 12 inches from my left knee. Chili was positioned off to my right and never went to my left where the snake was just because the brush was so thick.
View attachment Tim saved the day 4.jpg

This one was on our kitchen patio maybe just 5 feet from the door. This was another healthy 4 foot + western diamondback.
I moved it with a push broom off onto the pea rock. Bev thought I was much too close when taking the pictures.


View attachment 7-14-074feetofdiamondbackE.jpg



I had Habi and Chip with me when we went on a scouting trip looking for ducks. Never Let Your Guard Down!


View attachment diamondback 2.jpg
 
Tod,

I have 22 doses of rattlesnake vaccine at my vet in VT. 16 are currently spoken for.

I ordered the case last year but cancelled my trip due to Covid. The vaccine expires in October, and I will be administering the doses in August.

PM for details.

Headed to ND, MT, and NE the third week of September. Would like to swing through the UP on my way back.

I've not been able to schedule a snake breaking seminar. The first time I went out west, we vaccinated the dogs in Bismarck, ND and kept the second dose on ice/refrigeration for 30 days.
 
There was a piece on snakebites in dogs in Newsweek recently. They pegged the lose of life probability between 1 and 30 percent. Apparently the controversy with the vaccine centers on it being developed specifically for western diamondback snake bites... Seasonal risk of snake bite ranged from April to October.
 
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