Poachers

Vince Pagliaroli

Vince Pagliaroli

Well-known member
Article in the May 5, 2017 NY Outdoor News

"Three NY state waterfowlers were fined $2,200 dollars for killing 35 Redheads (wounding many others) on Owasco Lake. 29 Redheads over the limit, one hunter had no license, or duck stamp. Plus various other offenses."

Article states most waterfowlers feel the judge was "way to lenient".

YA THINK!!!!!


My question is how and why were the Federal Fish & Wildlife Officers not involved in this?

A town justice decides what is proper punishment, and that's it?

If so, NY is way different than anywhere I have hunted, or lived.

The NY DEC works for us, and then must endure such results. Makes no sense does it?
 
Too lenient for me. If the feds were involved it would be big money. Also gone to federal court... And they probably kept their license's...
 
Human lives are worth much more than dead ducks, illegal or not, but wow that seems incredibly lenient... I could be wrong but I think the AL fine per bird over the limit is between the $350-500 range. Seems they are getting off easy.
 
"Way to lenient" is the understatement of the year. I hope it was at least $2k per poacher.

That is strange, feds should have stepped in.

Kyle is correct, a guy down here was fined a few years back for killing mistakenly killing 6 bird limit of scaup opening day, didn't try to hide it, was showing it off to the warden with a big smile!
Even though it was obvious he made an "honest" mistake and owned up to it, the fine was still $600.00 for the 3 birds over the limit.
My calculation is these guys owed at least $5800 plus the other offenses and wanton waste for all the wounded birds.
 
The way it reads $2,200, was the total amount of fines for all three men.

Had it happened in my old home state of PA, there would have been hell to pay. With possible loss of vehicles, boat, guns, most likely license suspension and very hefty fines. Not to mention what they would have in lawyers fees if they contested.

They were caught by 2 NY DEC officers, that were off duty and also waterfowl hunting the same area. Caught Red Handed.
 
i don't think NY is different

sadly

a local justice will often not take game hogs serious as criminals

more than one study has shown that jail time, and lots of it, is the best deterrent to poaching
 
Local justices do not handle game violations in some other states. Not the NY DEC's fault, just the way the state does it's business. Sunshine has a tough time with all the political clouds.
 
Not a deer, but there is hope. Some judges take this stuff seriously-

http://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/tennessee/2017/01/12/deer-costs-man-nearly-10000-under-new-tennessee-law/96480784/
$10k for a poached deer in TN

https://www.tn.gov/twra/news/24139
$5k each in fines, lifetime ban on hunting, plus confiscated equipment

http://archive.knoxnews.com/sports/poachers-pay-price-for-duck-hunting-ep-410587224-359660731.html
At least 1 got jail time over this one. It very easily could have gone federal and they would have nailed their hides to the barn.
 
I thought there was duplicity with waterfowl because it is federally managed.

Could more charges be brought up on the federal level?

They must have felt like market gunners and they almost got away with it if it wasn't for those meddling wardens.
 
Here in PA it would be $100-$200 per bird. The problem we have is the district magistrate that covers the area where most of the duck hunting takes place on Lake Erie won't find anybody guilty of anything. Everyone knows it so they take a hearing and are found not guilty. The federal route is an option, but the fines aren't any better. PA has stepped it up for big game violations. Multiple illegal big game animals will put you into misdemeanor and felony charges with jail time. Lose of hunting privileges goes with any illegally taken wildlife.
 
For added color to the story, it is my understanding that a large flock of redheads swam within gun range and these guys unloaded on the swimming birds.
 
That it what I read in the story. They were shooting birds on the water, in their decoys.

Redheads are gullible birds, and restraint is always key when they come in. Mistakes can be made, and he without sin cast the first stone, but these guys went hog wild and got off pretty lightly. Hopefully they and others will learn from their actions. As it reflects upon the entire waterfowl hunting community.

My hunting partners and I shot our first Redheads in 1976, when the Feds reopened the season after closing it for low population. They reopened Can hunting the same year.

Redheads came through western NY pretty thick last fall and winter. The hen to drake ration was the best I have seen in many, many years. So the outlook is good, and then something like this occurs.

I'm just a Geezer, but it makes me shake my head. So many of us pour so much into conservation, and it seems others do not have a clue.

Education and mentoring must play a greater role. It's what we Geezers are pretty good at.
 
The way a lot of the waterfowl cases are prosecuted usually works like this. Over the limits are a state as well as a federal violation and may be prosecuted in either court. Many state officers are deputized by the Dept. of Interior as a US Police Officer. They can set the cases in federal court even though they may be employed as a state officer.
The feds can adopt a state case as well. In some cases the feds do not wish to prosecute in their court, either because the USFWS agent or the US Attorney does not want the case and the officers take it to a state court. Often time some interagency politics get involved in these decisions.
Some state courts are stiffer on hunting cases than the federal courts are. In this case I am surprised that the cases were not federally prosecuted as they do have a bigger hammer to use.
 
The thing that strikes me is that I hear of cases that get charged with major infractions and either plea to a slap on the wrist or get dismissed altogether.

One of the big goose call makers from southern Illinois got charged with 13 felonies and plead to a misdemeanor or something. We had a big commercial fishing bust in northern MN a few years back where everything got dismissed. And our DNR put a Herculean effort into "bagging" a trophy buck poacher who got off Scott free on a technicality pertaining to the kind of warrant the game warden acquired.

These guys were probably just fools but at least they got caught and penalzedi. After the past several years of poachers getting off the hook in MN I can't see how wardens even go about making good cases anymore.
 
there was just a grand jury indictment issued to three of the guides up in WI. the infraction dates were from 2013. I don't understand why it would take 4 years for charges to be brought. In these cases; it was undercover officers taking part in over harvest. I t sure seems that we could spend our tax dollars in a better manner
 
Had to do some digging, and the stats are from 2011.

Per Outdoor Life Magazine, Dec/Jan 2011

Top 10 Poaching Fines The biggest busts in U.S. history by John Haughey

#1 $120,000 for baiting waterfowl.

Some of the other busts involve jail time along with hefty fines.

None of the busts were in the East.
 
that is not what I was referring to. Here is the current occurrence that was just posted last month
http://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Hunting-guide-419887793.html
And remember, they are innocent until proven guilty


According to a news release from the U.S. Department of Justice, Tony Toye, 49 of Boscobel; Jeremy Schreiner, 34, of Durand; and Matt Raley, 33, of Arbor Vitae are charged with violations of the Lacey Act and the Migratory Bird Treaty.

The charges are separate, but all stem from a common investigation. The indictments allege that in each circumstance, the client was in fact an undercover U.S. Fish and Wildlife agent.

Court documents list the offense date as Nov. 23, 2012.

Each of these guided hunts took place on the Upper Mississippi River National Wildlife and Fish Refuge.

If convicted, each defendant faces a maximum penalty of one year in federal prison. The charges are the result of an investigation by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Office of Law Enforcement; U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Refugee Law Enforcement; and Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources. The prosecution of these cases is being handled by Assistant U.S. Attorney Daniel Graber. "
 
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