Is it a pirogue or a bateau ??

[Griggs HarbingerBoatworks]

Hello all,

I have been making these small duck boats for hunting on a small marsh pond in eastern North Carolina. Is it a pirogue or a bateau? After trying several different propulsion options I have also learned with a little balance a capped 10' pvc pipe with a little sand is hard to beat, real quiet too.

Best,

Harbinger Boatworks (Lea Griggs)

 

[Dani]

Good morning Lea,

I would say not a pirogue. All the pirogues I have seen are pointy ended on both sides and long and comparatively narrow. So, I'd say not a pirogue.

They are good looking boats though. Are they plans that you came up with or ones that you had already?

 

[Griggs HarbingerBoatworks]

Dani,

I design them in Rhino 3d and lay most of the parts out for CNC routing. If its bigger than 8' I will print paper patterns or use puzzle joints off the CNC router.

I'm going to hopefully start a 12' build this summer that should end up looking something more like a Chincoteague scow - bateau of sorts.

 

[Carl]

I agree with Dani, on all points.
Cool little boats, are displacement hulls with some rocker in the hull?

 

[Griggs HarbingerBoatworks]

Carl,

displacement hull with a little rocker is just about right.

Here are some pictures of the Rhino design for this summers build. Probably okoume plywood, coosa, pvc again. I'm saving up h80 Divinycell scrap at work to hopefully build a full foam fiberglass option soon...

On the 10' boats passenger has to get down on their knees or sit on a bucker to ride - no room for the dog then... hopefully the 12' will fix that.

Best,

Griggs

 

[Eric Patterson]

Lea

Those are very well crafted. Thank you for sharing them. When I think of a bateau or a pirogue my mind sees a boat pointed at both ends. I don't think there is a rigid taxonomy for those two names so there is room for interpretation. When I look at your boats I see pond boxes. Either that or a miniature Garvey or scow. Maybe Steve Sanford or some of the other boat builders will pick up on this thread and weigh in. Regardless, you've got a nice looking craft.

 

[Eric Patterson]

It just hit me. Those might very well be prams.

 

[Rick Pierce]

A "bateau" to me is almost like a punt...tapered in front and back, but flat-nosed. A pirogue is double-ended to a point and narrower like a canoe.

Those are like small garveys or prams...but I am absolutely in love with the design. If you have a plan for the 10-footer with the coaming, I'd love to see it/have/buy a set.

 

[Griggs HarbingerBoatworks]

Rick,

Would you be printing the plans on paper or having them CNC routed?
I will need to update the design to include the bow cap - coaming. Those details I did on the fly.

Idk how much to price them at or how selling them would work. I would cut you a deal if you promised to post pictures hunting with it and do a little promotion.

attached is what have on the computer and laid flat for routing.

I stand up straight in this boat and push pole with my heels back to the seat. I could send a picture or two of that as well.

Best,

Griggs

 

[Jeff Reardon]

I'm with Eric on calling it a pram--and with the crowd in liking the design. I don't know from pirogues, as I am from Maine, but a bateau is a big boat used in the Maine logging and log driving industry for centuries. Historical accounts say that Benedict Arnold, before he turned traitor, failed to capture Quebec because someone convinced him to take bateaux instead of canoes upriver on the trek. The bateaux were planked with green wood, leaked, were too big and heavy to portage around the many falls, and led to sickness, spoiled food, and desertions. (Or so they say.) Definitely a double ender. A bunch of history nuts tried to re-enact the boat trip a few years ago. Here's a picture to two bateaux from that trip in a story from my local paper, showing them paddling up through downtown Augusta at the head of tide on the Kennebec. https://www.pressherald.com/2018/09...attle-bateaux-those-leaky-and-unstable-boats/

 

[Dani]

How much do they weigh?

 

[Griggs HarbingerBoatworks]

I haven't put one on a scale yet. I can put it in and out of the back of the truck fine by myself. If I eat my Wheaties I can roll it over - pick it up over my head by myself. Struck my curiosity so ill see if I can weigh one this afternoon.

 

[Paul Taylor]

In Louisiana every jon boat seems to be called a bateau. Great looking little rig you got there regardless!!!

 

[Griggs HarbingerBoatworks]

98 lbs on the home scale. Seems more than I thought it would be...

 

[Richard Lathrop]

Hello all,

I have been making these small duck boats for hunting on a small marsh pond in eastern North Carolina. Is it a pirogue or a bateau? After trying several different propulsion options I have also learned with a little balance a capped 10' pvc pipe with a little sand is hard to beat, real quiet too.

Best,

Harbinger Boatworks (Lea Griggs)

I would say modified garvey or scow. Most traditional boats had sloping transoms.

What size CNC router are you using? Would like to learn how to loft a boat in Fusion360 but have not had the time.

Rick Lathrop

 

[Griggs HarbingerBoatworks]

I have access to a 5x12 shop bot and an older 4x8 CNC factory router through my employer. I like Fusion360 for some things (mechanical items) but the engineers I work with use Rhino 3d so Rhino 3d is what I primarily work with...

 

[Anthony Babich]

Hello all,

I have been making these small duck boats for hunting on a small marsh pond in eastern North Carolina. Is it a pirogue or a bateau? After trying several different propulsion options I have also learned with a little balance a capped 10' pvc pipe with a little sand is hard to beat, real quiet too.

Best,

Harbinger Boatworks (Lea Griggs)

Wow that is one cool boat!

 

[Rick Pierce]

Rick,

Would you be printing the plans on paper or having them CNC routed?
I will need to update the design to include the bow cap - coaming. Those details I did on the fly.

Idk how much to price them at or how selling them would work. I would cut you a deal if you promised to post pictures hunting with it and do a little promotion.

attached is what have on the computer and laid flat for routing.

I stand up straight in this boat and push pole with my heels back to the seat. I could send a picture or two of that as well.

Best,

Griggs

Griggs,

Probably printing and laying out/cutting out by hand. I'm not a boat builder, but that boat intrigues me; if it's towable, it would be a great option for some of the islands and river backwaters to use like a pond box...even on some of the rice fields if there isn't a pit or the birds are working away from the pit, it seems like you could snuggle it up to a rice levee and be much better off.

There are also a few places on some of the WMA's and NWR's that poling or paddling a small boat might be easier than walking in, in the flooded timber.

This is a long-term thing for me, so I'd just need to get a straight price; if I build it I'll be more than happy to get pictures along the way, but it's a future project.

 

[Steve Sanford]

Hello all,

I have been making these small duck boats for hunting on a small marsh pond in eastern North Carolina. Is it a pirogue or a bateau? After trying several different propulsion options I have also learned with a little balance a capped 10' pvc pipe with a little sand is hard to beat, real quiet too.

Best,

Harbinger Boatworks (Lea Griggs)

Good morning, Griggs~

If for nothing else, I am generally known as an insufferable stickler for correct terminology when it comes to boats - or at least small gunning craft. The good news is you really cannot go astray with "bateau". It is French for "boat". I've never studied that particular Romance language but have gathered that - as a rule - one pronounces almost none of the letters. Thus the plural of bateau is bateaux - but pronounced with no regard for the "x"....



They have a long history up here where I live. The Hudson Crossing link below shows lots of 18th century bateaux - and the site is not far west of us.

https://www.hudsoncrossingpark.org/bridge-of-boats

But, a quick visit to the interwebs finds plenty of square-ended vessels called bateaux. (ba-TOW)

A pirogue, on the other hand, is a specific type that is indigenous to your lowlands - even if all the Cajuns trace their roots to Acadia up here in the Northeast (I've "borrowed" the Canadian Maritimes for the purposes of my argument....). This pirogue (do not pronounce the last 3 letters!) is pointed at both ends, is intended for one or two people, and has a flat bottom. It probably has a bit more beam and a bit more freeboard than a true pirogue from down your way. Of course, to confuse matters thoroughly, I call her "Battenkill Bateau" in my files.......



Her story is at: https://stevenjaysanford.com/lost-found-boat-a-15-foot-pirogue/

I do have a new friend locally who grew up in your state - and still has the pirogue he had for himself when he was 14. I need to discuss this matter with Ken.

In any event: Congratulations on a sweet vessel!

All the best,

SJS

 

[roy brewington]

Steve, I like the looks of your 15' Pirogue. Did you ever post any build plans for it as you did with your gunnin Bx.?