Which pattern would you rather hunt with?

[Jay K]

Question for BOSS shooters.

BOSS gets a ton of praise and I have been shooting it too. But I read something alarming about it a couple months back on a vintage shotgun group. One member reported getting terrible patterns from it, I mean like unprecedented bad patterns. As he investigated the cause he discovered the copper plating was delaminating from the pellets causing little "wings" over the surface of the pellet, wrecking its performance. Has anyone else heard of this? An isolated event or has BOSS run into a manufacturing issue that compromises its quality?

Happens, on a limited basis, with all bismuth shot. That's also part of the basis why it's so effective. It's considered at minimum, a semi-frangible ammo. The real question is did it happen coming out of the barrel and/or in-flight? Or was it at the terminal point, hitting the intended target? I can't really say what the deal is. All I know is I have had some great success with it once I dialed in my choke situation.

On the flip side of the issue you presented, there are countless old-gun enthusiasts who now can actually hunt their grandfather's fixed choke gun from the 50's they always wanted to.

 

[Blake K]

From their Facebook site post on Oct 6​

Boss Shotshells​

·

Our highly-anticipated Warchief line is filled to the crimp with upgrades:
• Unique double gas seal
• Rapid opening hinge petals
• In-House developed wads infused with BioTec’s EcoPure
• Proprietary walnut shell buffer
The results?
• 18% increase in pattern density
• Close to zero pellet distortion
• Enhanced plastic biodegradation once it hits the ground



Not sure this addresses the comments above but best info I could quickly find about their upgrade. I personally will stick with their legacy line as 1) cheaper 2) I don't shoot any of my older guns waterfowl hunting thus not as concerned with potential damage from shot 3) Legacy line has worked and patterns very well for me.

From what I have read and seen on pattern density is actually closer to 10% increase with an already dense pattern using Legacy not sure I could justify the increased cost to shoot the warchief line.

 

[Cody Williams]

Thanks again for all the suggestions guys...
for what it's worth I listened to a podcast a while back with the guy who founded Boss, and according to him the copper plating is specifically to address the problems that earlier bismuth loads had with fragmenting. I've only recovered a few pellets from birds that I've shot this year, most have been full pass throughs, but the pellets that I've recovered have been whole, maybe slightly deformed but not fragmented.

Also I have my dad's 1963 Ithaca 37 with a fixed full choke 30" barrel in my safe right now, that thing is a pheasant hammer but I'm putting some serious thought into taking it into the marsh and having a vintage hunt with some bismuth!

 

[MIKE-SID]

If it's any consolation I switched to boss when it was the same price as steel (2020), funny now how much it's gone up. I shoot the 2, 3, 4, 5, and 3/5 duplex. I ALWAYS use a Carlsons cremator LR choke and have noticed a dramatic improvement. Most of my shots are also 40 yards and under

I agree with Nick. I also shoot Carlson Cremator chokes. I've been shooting them from about when they came out. Soon after switching to Boss, I started exclusively shooting their LR (long range) Creamator choke. In the past with steel I used CR or MR. ( close range or medium range).
I did patter them and there wasn't a huge difference, but the LR kills the birds for me.
I also Agee that Boss shoots better with tighter chokes.
I'm shooting all "legacy " shells. #4 is my all around favorite.

 

[MIKE-SID]

Question for BOSS shooters.

BOSS gets a ton of praise and I have been shooting it too. But I read something alarming about it a couple months back on a vintage shotgun group. One member reported getting terrible patterns from it, I mean like unprecedented bad patterns. As he investigated the cause he discovered the copper plating was delaminating from the pellets causing little "wings" over the surface of the pellet, wrecking its performance. Has anyone else heard of this? An isolated event or has BOSS run into a manufacturing issue that compromises its quality?

Eric, I have never seen this. The pellets I find in my birds are mostly whole and round, or broken up from hitting bones.
I definitely see the improvement from Bismuth from steel. Even a poor shot will frequently bring down the bird. I personally feel the Boss is way better that steel especially on Canada geese! If I miss the head shot, I'm usually breaking a wing to bring them down.
I wish every manufacturer has Bismuth shells available at a good price

 

[Linhardt]

Here is a series that is pretty good for getting the best of everything to hunt waterfowl. Worth the watch.

Surviving Duck Season - Shotgunning Series

 

[SJ Fairbank]

I crushed a dozen or so Boss #4 & #7 Legacy load pellets today, and checked them out with a magnifying glass. Shells were between two years and one month old (based on date of receipt). They are more pliable than I recalled, although hard and friable in comparison to lead. Probably manufactured by a company owned by dentists. Certainly not as brittle as first generation bismuth pellets from 30 years ago, which exploded into dust when crushed gently with a hammer. I didn't inspect them under high magnification, but they appeared to be sintered similar to the old time pellets but are obviously more durable. I couldn't see any separation between the bismuth and copper plating.

So curiosity got the best of me. I ordered 200 of my favorite Boss load today, the 3", 1.5 oz, #4's. When they arrive I'll cut a few open and check out the pellets. I hope the report Eric saw is just sour grapes, as I really like the Boss shells for puddle ducks.

 

[Cody Williams]

Here is a series that is pretty good for getting the best of everything to hunt waterfowl. Worth the watch.

Surviving Duck Season - Shotgunning Series

That series is incredible! The slow-motion one about shot string is so eye-opening, it really drives home that a pattern shot on paper is a 2-D image of a 3-D shot cloud.

After hunting yesterday, I'm sticking with the full choke, for some reason I just seem to shoot better and hit better with it vs. the modified.

 

[Carl]

Just gave yourself the best advice: stick with what works for you!!

 

[jode hillman]

Lots of good advice here....
Dave-I agree that the #1 factor in how well you'll shoot a particular gun depends on how it fits you and how comfortable you are with it. I've shot the same Remington 870 for 20 years now and it feels like a part of me, I'd take that old workhorse over just about anything else because it just feels and fits so right.

Carl-in the late season around here we get a lot of big Canada geese along with big, downy late season mallards, I thought that having the bigger #3s mixed with the #5s for pattern density would be a good do-it-all load over the decoys. Boss recommended that duplex load as a good transition for people coming from growing up only shooting steel, I suppose to build confidence in the smaller shot since I'm too young to have hunted waterfowl with lead. I wouldn't have a problem taking a shot at a 40 yard goose with this load, it's a killer! I also got 2 boxes of 3" 1 1/2oz #2s for our late goose season, that should be a goose hammer! I used one of those to take my swan this year, it was about a 35 yard shot straight up and the only pellets I recovered were stuck under the skin on its back after passing all the way through the breast, breastbone, and body cavity.

I'm leaning towards sticking with the full choke, it seems like it should either be a clean kill or a clean miss depending on how well I'm shooting!

I like the look of the full pattern, but that’s just me. I recently sold off my remaining boss shells. I had too many FTF primers, as well as being too slow for my liking. After years of shooting faster Steel loads, I had trouble acclimating to the larger leads needed w boss.

However, when you did connect with a duck, it was generally dead in the air

 

[Craig F]

I've been shooting 20 gauge Boss #4s through my Benelli M2 20 for going on three and a half seasons now. I'm probably doing it wrong based on what you read on the internet but I shoot improved cylinder. Looking at my log book I've killed just over 550 ducks and geese with that combo.

In my blind bag I keep a Muller decoy choke, which I probably should use more, my standard IC, and a modified. I patterned and tried a light modified when I first got my 20 as well but it didn't work well for me in real world situations. Went to bismuth with the 20 to test it out and I haven't gone back to steel. I tried the 3/5 duplex load but got my best real world performance out of straight #4s. I have not tried the warchief shells.

I'm shooting decoying birds obviously, as close as I can get them. I don't come across a ton of geese in my travels, but I've killed Canadas and snows that have crossed my puddle duck spread.

I have heard of the primer issues like Jode mentions, but I've never experienced it yet. Maybe the 20 gauge primers are different?

 

[SJ Fairbank]

FWIW, in my experience the most common reason people get a batch of factory shells with "bad primers" isn't entirely the primers fault. Guns with slightly short firing pins, weak striker or hammer springs, or just nasty dirty gummed up bolts will tend to have FTF. If it happens to you, clean the guts of your gun thoroughly and try again. Compressed air blows stuff out of the innards you can't believe could be in there. If it's an older gun look at the end of the firing pin for wear. Maybe time for a new pin and/or hammer spring. I offer this from observation having squandered more than 30 years hanging around gun clubs and firing a couple million shells. Because of the sheer volume of shooting you see a lot of unexpected stuff. Keep in mind we're talking factory shells, reloads have a mind of their own. Reloads are the devil.

Having said all that it definitely happens that a bad batch of primers comes off the line, that maybe don't like cold weather. Or the primers seat a little deep in the hull for whatever reason. It happens. But experience says clean your gun first if you get a FTF.

 

[jode hillman]

FWIW, in my experience the most common reason people get a batch of factory shells with "bad primers" isn't entirely the primers fault. Guns with slightly short firing pins, weak striker or hammer springs, or just nasty dirty gummed up bolts will tend to have FTF. If it happens to you, clean the guts of your gun thoroughly and try again. Compressed air blows stuff out of the innards you can't believe could be in there. If it's an older gun look at the end of the firing pin for wear. Maybe time for a new pin and/or hammer spring. I offer this from observation having squandered more than 30 years hanging around gun clubs and firing a couple million shells. Because of the sheer volume of shooting you see a lot of unexpected stuff. Keep in mind we're talking factory shells, reloads have a mind of their own. Reloads are the devil.

Having said all that it definitely happens that a bad batch of primers comes off the line, that maybe don't like cold weather. Or the primers seat a little deep in the hull for whatever reason. It happens. But experience says clean your gun first if you get a FTF.

I hear ya. I’m a nut for gun cleaning and maintenance. I’ve shot just about everything and the only shells my Extrema FTF on is boss. I guess it was just a bad batch.

 

[Jay K]

FWIW, in my experience the most common reason people get a batch of factory shells with "bad primers" isn't entirely the primers fault. Guns with slightly short firing pins, weak striker or hammer springs, or just nasty dirty gummed up bolts will tend to have FTF. If it happens to you, clean the guts of your gun thoroughly and try again. Compressed air blows stuff out of the innards you can't believe could be in there. If it's an older gun look at the end of the firing pin for wear. Maybe time for a new pin and/or hammer spring. I offer this from observation having squandered more than 30 years hanging around gun clubs and firing a couple million shells. Because of the sheer volume of shooting you see a lot of unexpected stuff. Keep in mind we're talking factory shells, reloads have a mind of their own. Reloads are the devil.

Having said all that it definitely happens that a bad batch of primers comes off the line, that maybe don't like cold weather. Or the primers seat a little deep in the hull for whatever reason. It happens. But experience says clean your gun first if you get a FTF.

90% of the "bad primer" issues are coming from specific guns, with known firing pin issues. I am not going to get into that can of worms because then the whole good gun/bad gun debate comes in. If you look though, it's a specific manufacturer. Also, like you said, sometimes it becomes a firing pin wear and tear issue and/or cleaning. One manufacturer, that the issue seems to happen with, have been known to be sending customers "upgraded firing pin springs." So take with that what you will.

I shoot an A300 Xtrema and new Browning Silver. Both gas guns. Neither of them have had a FTF or malfunction with Boss or any other manufacturer of ammo, for that matter. This year was my first issue and it was my fault I suppose. Choke got stuck in the Silver and it went to back to Browning for repair.

 

[Jonathan W Detwiler]

It's hard to have too much choke with the Boss Bismuth. It does pattern much like lead, but tends to open up a bit faster since it's only 90-some percent the density. To my eye, your full is the right choke, any bird in that pattern isn't flying away. There are several light regions in the modified, you could put a duck well within the pattern and cripple it. Missing a few but losing fewer cripples is a nice tradeoff.

I tinkered when I first bought some Boss two years ago, Boss ammo through a full choke works great in several different make/model shotguns I own. But you need to have confidence in your equipment, so whatever looks best to your eye is what you should use. If the full looks too tight, you may have a tendency to aim, rather than point the shotgun. Trying not to miss instead of trying to hit. Being a good shotgunner requires you to channel your inner gambler. You toss the shot out there where you think the bird will be, so it requires trust in the gear among other things. I'm pretty sure shotguns hate cautious shooters.

Agree. Full choke all the way unless early season and tight quarters.