Zach Taylor widgeon by mighty layout boys HELP

Dylan N

Dylan N

New member
Pictures below, I have just purchased a Zach Taylor widgeon made by the layout boys. I was told that it was a great dual purpose hull. I was told I could get the best advice on this forum. I have a couple questions any info personal input or advice on this boat would be appreciated. I plan to solo when everyone bails on me and then late season layout maybe with my tender and buddies.

The hull should be all fiberglass with NO wood is that correct that’s what it seems like to me?

The floor seems to have a little flex to it one half more than the other. To add strength can I just sand the paint off with 80grit and use 2 layers 1708 fiberglass and epoxy resin on underside and inside then hit it with 120 and paint?

how did the top mate to the hull from factory or what should I do. Someone caulked it and it lets water in where they meet. Should I glass it shut or 4200 seal it? Suggestions?

The square hole the lip seems not as strong as I’d like for someone my size 6’1 265lb can I do the same thing with 1708 I’m asking cause I’ve never worked glass much before.

I’d love to find oar mounts someone took them off and what length oars to use or do u guys just kayak row?

I got the boat and trailer for $700 hopefully I did ok. Going to put a 8hp Yamaha on it.



Thank you
IMG_1390.jpegIMG_1385.jpegIMG_1386.jpegIMG_1388.jpegIMG_1387.jpegIMG_1384.jpeg
 
Nice boats! I do seem to remember other members seeing more flex in the hulls than expected and some implemented “fixes”. I’m sure someone will chime in.
BTW, please check your messages!
 
Curious as to whether these boats had flotation under floor or was it used in other areas of boat? Seems that I remember some members fixing bottom flex on South Bay boats. Maybe that same concept could be applied to this Widgeon.
 
A structural foam core will do the most to add rigidity to the hull without adding excess weight.
The link is just a source for your research, I have no connection nor have I ordered from this source.

Vinyl Foam: Divinycell 5 lb. Density

Looking to make a strong composite part? DIAB closed cell vinyl foam is an ideal sandwich core where ultimate laminate strength is critical. With compressive strengths over 200 psi, the 5 lb./cubic foot foam offers more strength to a laminate than other lightweight core materials, like...
www.fibreglast.com www.fibreglast.com

1721696752319.png
 
roy brewington said:
Curious as to whether these boats had flotation under floor or was it used in other areas of boat? Seems that I remember some members fixing bottom flex on South Bay boats. Maybe that same concept could be applied to this Widgeon.
Click to expand...
Any links or ideas how they made it stronger?
 
onlyfowlintentions said:
Pictures below, I have just purchased a Zach Taylor widgeon made by the layout boys. I was told that it was a great dual purpose hull. I was told I could get the best advice on this forum. I have a couple questions any info personal input or advice on this boat would be appreciated. I plan to solo when everyone bails on me and then late season layout maybe with my tender and buddies.
Click to expand...
Welcome to duckboats.net. Please use your real name. That's been the rule since day-one here. I remember when Mark Rongers produced that boat but never saw one in person. It has eye pleasing lines.
onlyfowlintentions said:
The hull should be all fiberglass with NO wood is that correct that’s what it seems like to me?
Click to expand...
That is my recollection of how Mark built it.
onlyfowlintentions said:
The floor seems to have a little flex to it one half more than the other. To add strength can I just sand the paint off with 80grit and use 2 layers 1708 fiberglass and epoxy resin on underside and inside then hit it with 120 and paint?
Click to expand...
I do recall there being flex in the floor and people rectifying it by adding more glass to the bottom. Your solution seems like it would go a long ways towards strengthening the hull. Glassing in ribs would help too. I suspect you want to keep as much cockpit depth as possible so adding a floor may be more that you want to do, but that would solve the flexing problem. You might have luck by glassing in half rounds. Not having seen the issue first hand I'm not sure of they would need to run fore and aft, or port to starboard. Is it flexing down the keel, or bulging between the keel and chine?
onlyfowlintentions said:
how did the top mate to the hull from factory or what should I do. Someone caulked it and it lets water in where they meet. Should I glass it shut or 4200 seal it? Suggestions?
Click to expand...
I think I would use a couple layers of glass tape and epoxy and join the two halves. You might first need to use some thickened epoxy to ease the transition between the two halves. You want to glass over radiuses, not hard lines. You will need to remove all that excess caulk.
onlyfowlintentions said:
The square hole the lip seems not as strong as I’d like for someone my size 6’1 265lb can I do the same thing with 1708 I’m asking cause I’ve never worked glass much before.
Click to expand...
I'm unclear what you are referring to by "square hole lip".
onlyfowlintentions said:
I’d love to find oar mounts someone took them off and what length oars to use or do u guys just kayak row?
Click to expand...
Hamilton marine has bronze oar locks and sockets in their catalog.
onlyfowlintentions said:
I got the boat and trailer for $700 hopefully I did ok. Going to put a 8hp Yamaha on it.



Thank you
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I went and looked at the original Zack Taylor plans and there is a floorboard. It's 16" wide but doesn't say how far it sits above the hull but from the looks not too much. Regardless, there appears to be some room to add one. If you add a floor and bond it to the hull you will probably eliminate a lot or all the flexing you are seeing. I would use plywood and seal the holy crap out of it with epoxy before bonding to the hull.

Barnegat Bay Sneakbox

Barnegat Bay Sneakbox plans from Successful Waterfowling by Zack Taylor.
duckboats.net duckboats.net


ztwigeon2-jpg.52876
 
Eric Patterson said:
Welcome to duckboats.net. Please use your real name. That's been the rule since day-one here. I remember when Mark Rongers produced that boat but never saw one in person. It has eye pleasing lines.

That is my recollection of how Mark built it.

I do recall there being flex in the floor and people rectifying it by adding more glass to the bottom. Your solution seems like it would go a long ways towards strengthening the hull. Glassing in ribs would help too. I suspect you want to keep as much cockpit depth as possible so adding a floor may be more that you want to do, but that would solve the flexing problem. You might have luck by glassing in half rounds. Not having seen the issue first hand I'm not sure of they would need to run fore and aft, or port to starboard. Is it flexing down the keel, or bulging between the keel and chine?

I think I would use a couple layers of glass tape and epoxy and join the two halves. You might first need to use some thickened epoxy to ease the transition between the two halves. You want to glass over radiuses, not hard lines. You will need to remove all that excess caulk.

I'm unclear what you are referring to by "square hole lip".

Hamilton marine has bronze oar locks and sockets in their catalog.
Click to expand...
Thans
Eric Patterson said:
I went and looked at the original Zack Taylor plans and there is a floorboard. It's 16" wide but doesn't say how far it sits above the hull but from the looks not too much. Regardless, there appears to be some room to add one. If you add a floor and bond it to the hull you will probably eliminate a lot or all the flexing you are seeing. I would use plywood and seal the holy crap out of it with epoxy before bonding to the hull.

Barnegat Bay Sneakbox

Barnegat Bay Sneakbox plans from Successful Waterfowling by Zack Taylor.
duckboats.net duckboats.net


ztwigeon2-jpg.52876
Click to expand...
thanks Eric you’ve supplied alot of information. I understand the original boat he used wood. I can’t see any wood and the hull is thin like I can’t see how there is a piece of wood there. It makes sense what you are saying of adding exposure filler to make a radius and not a sharp step then glass over that with glass tape. Didn’t think of that. Thank you. I could just add some 1708 inside the bottom and have it go over those square bumps on the sides. As far as a floor you also have another point cause I’ll have waders on. Guess no need for wood slats. Thanks.
 
Zac Taylor designed the boat for wood construction. Before Zac passed away Mark Rongers went to Zac and they came up with a licensing agreement to produce the boat in fiberglass. I doubt your boat has any wood in it, other than maybe somewhere in the transom or maybe a deck support, if at all. My thought was to tape the sheer on the outside to lock the two halves together. That would add some protection for inevitable dock dings. If you can get to the sheer from the interior that will work too. I figured it would be a bit too tight a space to work in. Lastly, given the small size of the floor you could always laminate a bunch of that 1708 into a sheet and then epoxy it in as your floor. You'll still need some supports but that would eliminate plywood.

Looks like a fun project. For $800 you got a hell of a good deal, and she looks to be in fine shape. If you put the time and care into the mods she'll come out better than new and I'd be proud to have it in my fleet. Please keep us updated with pictures.
 
Eric I also am talking when u see guys sitting in the edge of the top running their mirrors that lip of the square hole that you sit in I would like to strengthen it. I just don’t see my big ass not breaking that. I haven’t worked glass. So I just asking questions. How much sanding do I have to do before I lay 1708? Has to be 0 paint or just rough it up to bite?
 
Eric Patterson said:
Zac Taylor designed the boat for wood construction. Before Zac passed away Mark Rongers went to Zac and they came up with a licensing agreement to produce the boat in fiberglass. I doubt your boat has any wood in it, other than maybe somewhere in the transom or maybe a deck support, if at all. My thought was to tape the sheer on the outside to lock the two halves together. That would add some protection for inevitable dock dings. If you can get to the sheer from the interior that will work too. I figured it would be a bit too tight a space to work in. Lastly, given the small size of the floor you could always laminate a bunch of that 1708 into a sheet and then epoxy it in as your floor. You'll still need some supports but that would eliminate plywood.

Looks like a fun project. For $800 you got a hell of a good deal, and she looks to be in fine shape. If you put the time and care into the mods she'll come out better than new and I'd be proud to have it in my fleet. Please keep us updated with pictures.
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Thank you Eric I will
 
I think what you are saying is the cockpit coaming isn't rigid enough to support your weight. Correct? Is it hollow underneath? If so lay up more glass in there. Or fit and epoxy in wood to re-enforce it. I have made this type or repair in the past. I cut wood to fit in the void and then buried it in thickened epoxy. When cured and sanded smooth you would never know it wasn't factory, except it is much stronger than original.

Sand it back down to fiberglass. You want your repair to be as strong as epoxy can bond rather than the paint's bond which is weaker.

You can change your username at the below link once your account is 24 hours old.

 
Almost forgot. You stated in your first post "I was told I could get the best advice on this forum." Where did you hear this? Just curious and nice to hear.
 
Eric Patterson said:
Almost forgot. You stated in your first post "I was told I could get the best advice on this forum." Where did you hear this? Just curious and nice to hear.
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I’m posted on the refuge and haven’t gotten much back. Was told on there and an old local goose hunter i know that this site would have people with more knowledge of glass and boat repairs. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Eric Patterson said:
I think what you are saying is the cockpit coaming isn't rigid enough to support your weight. Correct? Is it hollow underneath? If so lay up more glass in there. Or fit and epoxy in wood to re-enforce it. I have made this type or repair in the past. I cut wood to fit in the void and then buried it in thickened epoxy. When cured and sanded smooth you would never know it wasn't factory, except it is much stronger than original.

Sand it back down to fiberglass. You want your repair to be as strong as epoxy can bond rather than the paint's bond which is weaker.

You can change your username at the below link once your account is 24 hours old.

Click to expand...
Thanks again. The cockpit rail “coaming” yes. I think it’s just solid fiberglass but not thick. I’ll double check. Been doing some research doesn’t seem to hard to work 1708 and use poly resin isn’t epoxy stronger? I also don’t understand how do I go from that to paint. They are using fairing or that fine sheet glass. I don’t need to do all that it’s a duck boat for Christ sake. I guess I just hit it with 120 and paint it
 
Don't make repairs with poly. It doesn't bond well to other cured fiberglass. It bonds fine when curing with itself in a single layup. But adding it after the fact isn't good practice. You want epoxy for all your repair work. I thought you were asking about sanding through old paint to get to bare glass. If you want a smooth finish you can mix a fairing compound with epoxy and squeegee in the weave and sand after cured. Or you can add a top layer of 6 oz. cloth to fill the 1708 weave. Or you can go rough and prime/paint over the weave. That's personal preference.
 
onlyfowlintentions said:
I could just add some 1708 inside the bottom and have it go over those square bumps on the sides.
Click to expand...
Those "square bumps" are the original Divinycell structural foam put in when the hull was originally fiberglassed using polyester, a chopper gun and a mold. Mark was all about weight, at the expense of durability and strength. Adding a foam core between the existing hull and any additional layers will provide much more rigidity than just adding more layers of glass.

Eric is 100% correct in his advice to NOT use polyester resin, and yes you need to get to bare fiberglass, no paint.
 
I agree with Dave, foam core certainly will rigidize the hull more than just extra layers of 1708. If you go this route, I think you can drop 1708 and go with 1700, maybe even 1200. You don't need the weight from epoxy-soaked chopped mat.
 
Hmm foam core? I’ll have to look into that. Thank you Dave. Im was thinking just glass cause then I don’t have a media such as wood or foam to suck up water later on if a crack happens. But i also don’t know shit but the raw basics.
 
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