Lumber yard etiquette

[tod osier]

I'd like input on a specific example from our local lumber yard. When I need nice lumber, I have a high quality lumber yard that I shop at. It has higher grades than the box stores and they charge a premium price. I've been buying a fair bit of pressure treated working on a deck. There is a guy in the yard that drives me crazy. He rushes over to "help" and rushes me, is underfoot and is a general PITA. One time recently he had the pile recovered before I even had a final count on what I wanted.

I do not expect to aggressively cull the lumber there, but I do expect not pay a premium price for other people's culls. They keep their stacks covered with culls and you have to get into the stack from there. I'm generally happy to accept 90% of the virgin stuff, but I'm paying not to have a ton of wane, loose knots, etc... and I reject those.

I guess my question is if this is typical? I've bought a lot of lumber at different places and not seen this. I feel strongly that he is protecting the lumber from me.

When I was younger I did go to box stores and expect the lumber to be good and cull to get the quality I wanted, so I get that issue.

 

[Steve Sanford]

I'd like input on a specific example from our local lumber yard. When I need nice lumber, I have a high quality lumber yard that I shop at. It has higher grades than the box stores and they charge a premium price. I've been buying a fair bit of pressure treated working on a deck. There is a guy in the yard that drives me crazy. He rushes over to "help" and rushes me, is underfoot and is a general PITA. One time recently he had the pile recovered before I even had a final count on what I wanted.

I do not expect to aggressively cull the lumber there, but I do expect not pay a premium price for other people's culls. They keep their stacks covered with culls and you have to get into the stack from there. I'm generally happy to accept 90% of the virgin stuff, but I'm paying not to have a ton of wane, loose knots, etc... and I reject those.

I guess my question is if this is typical? I've bought a lot of lumber at different places and not seen this. I feel strongly that he is protecting the lumber from me.

When I was younger I did go to box stores and expect the lumber to be good and cull to get the quality I wanted, so I get that issue.

Tod~

I do the same thing - but usually have cooperative staff who understand my need to select what I need. I have gotten enough virtually clear treated decking and inch (3/4") treated that way.

On the other hand, my local "quality" lumber yard was sold a few years ago. So, it went from a family business to corporate (regional chain). Everything has gotten worse. There is no longer such a thing as "clear" in their Select Pine - and they no longer carry the nice Mahogany (Philippine) decking boards I used to get for long projects like rubrails and thatch rails.

On the third hand...this summer I wanted to edge a portion of my stone driveway with treated 2x6 - buried flush, on edge. I purposefully selected the whippiest board my yard had on the pile. Although I still paid the full price (corporate never just does the right thing...and staff are not permitted to....), the "bent" piece needed just a bit of help to make the nice fair curve I wanted for the bend in the driveway.

I never took a good photo - you just can begin to see the16-foot-long bend here - but every carpenter I know asked me how I had done it....



All the best,

SJS

 

[Eric Patterson]

Tod

I don't know if I would call it typical, but I've been told a time or two I couldn't cherry pick.

Here's a couple suggestions.

1) When he approaches you tell him what you are looking for and that you want to cull boards that aren't up to your expectations, like you described above. In other words, be very upfront with your expectations and then see what he says. In other words, set your ground rules up front before boards are being loaded. If he says "that is against our policy" you can try and sell your business to him with a polite discussion of why your needs are what they are. If this doesn't convince him and you don't get any acceptable compromise, then politely say you are not satisfied and you feel the need to shop around to hopefully find a vendor that meets your needs.

2) Call ahead of your visit and ask to speak to the manager and discuss your needs. If he is fine with them then mention you are a long-time customer and employee "joe" has been overzealous and rushes you. That call will save you headaches on the lot. You may or may not get satisfaction, but you are giving the manager the information he needs to make the decision of how to manage his employees. If this doesn't yield satisfaction look to other sources. You will have done all you could to be a good customer and if they can't keep you happy let someone else try.

 

[tod osier]

Tod

I don't know if I would call it typical, but I've been told a time or two I couldn't cherry pick.

Here's a couple suggestions.

1) When he approaches you tell him what you are looking for and that you want to cull boards that aren't up to your expectations, like you described above. In other words, be very upfront with your expectations and then see what he says. In other words, set your ground rules up front before boards are being loaded. If he says "that is against our policy" you can try and sell your business to him with a polite discussion of why your needs are what they are. If this doesn't convince him and you don't get any acceptable compromise, then politely say you are not satisfied and you feel the need to shop around to hopefully find a vendor that meets your needs.

2) Call ahead of your visit and ask to speak to the manager and discuss your needs. If he is fine with them then mention you are a long-time customer and employee "joe" has been overzealous and rushes you. That call will save you headaches on the lot. You may or may not get satisfaction, but you are giving the manager the information he needs to make the decision of how to manage his employees. If this doesn't yield satisfaction look to other sources. You will have done all you could to be a good customer and if they can't keep you happy let someone else try.

I've thought about going both #1 and #2 on him.

I've spent probably 10K there over the years, but I'm pretty infrequent. I'm not looking for favors, but if they advertise their PT wood as #1 prime, it should be that. I shy away from conflict because I'm prone to get into conflict with guys like that. I need to handle him next time. I'd go on his day off, but he is always there .

 

[tod osier]

Tod~

I do the same thing - but usually have cooperative staff who understand my need to select what I need. I have gotten enough virtually clear treated decking and inch (3/4") treated that way.

On the other hand, my local "quality" lumber yard was sold a few years ago. So, it went from a family business to corporate (regional chain). Everything has gotten worse. There is no longer such a thing as "clear" in their Select Pine - and they no longer carry the nice Mahogany (Philippine) decking boards I used to get for long projects like rubrails and thatch rails.

On the third hand...this summer I wanted to edge a portion of my stone driveway with treated 2x6 - buried flush, on edge. I purposefully selected the whippiest board my yard had on the pile. Although I still paid the full price (corporate never just does the right thing...and staff are not permitted to....), the "bent" piece needed just a bit of help to make the nice fair curve I wanted for the bend in the driveway.

I never took a good photo - you just can begin to see the16-foot-long bend here - but every carpenter I know asked me how I had done it....

View attachment 60047

All the best,

SJS

I like the look of that board. I have done similar with scraps that cut short, you can have 2 rows staggered and get a nice fair curve.

 

[Vince Pagliaroli]

I learned Lumber Yard Etiquette from my good buddy that owned the boatworks and another good friend in commercial construction business. I was along to get a inside on getting very good White Pine, and other wood for my carving and art. I got a very good education me thinks.

The problem that you have with the employee is a common one from what I observed in the dealings I witnessed.

Both of my buddies did the same thing. They became very well liked by the Office Secretary aka Office Manager cuz that's the person that pretty much runs the show and calls the shots. Gifts that do not have to be expensive but thoughtful go a LONG way to give you more freedom to peruse the inventory and not thought of as a PITA. Once ya get the moniker of PITA it's pretty hard to shake but not impossible cuz it's seldom to late to change.

To get my foot in the door so to speak I gave gifts of artwork, apples, pastries, very good chocolate candy, etc. as the lumber yards were very rural. Bring enough so the person can share IF they want.

Once you are liked by the person calling the shots good things happen. They would save certain pieces of wood for me that others wanted but they knew I would like and put to good use. Call and they will tell you when to show up. Every Lumber Yard has a Secret Stash barn/building most often not on the same property. When they offer to take you there (it took me years) ya know yer in Good.

I doubt that this is a secret nor will it work all the time but it sure worked for my friends and I.

my 2 cents

 

[D. Hinton]

If I can’t pick the boards I want .. then I can’t spend my money… then sorry dude.

I have had too many people as of late mistake my “Nicety” for Naivity ..That stopped today as of 3:43 pm

Here. Forward blunt but direct and not dealing with people’s BS anymore (long day)

 

[tod osier]

If I can’t pick the boards I want .. then I can’t spend my money… then sorry dude.

I have had too many people as of late mistake my “Nicety” for Naivity ..That stopped today as of 3:43 pm

Here. Forward blunt but direct and not dealing with people’s BS anymore (long day)

I've been blunt my whole life and have burnt a lot of bridges as a result. I do think that I'm probably overcompensating in this situation for that.

 

[Ed L.]

All we have here is big box stores. No cherry picking allowed for the most part. Homebuilders here have gotten to the point they order 20% over bill or material requirements and return what they don't use. One of the reasons I don't shop at Menards. I don't like paying before picking.

 

[tod osier]

This is a super fancy place specializing on selling to builders building for wealthy CSers.

So I went this morning I needed some pressure treated 3: 2x12-16' and 5: 4x4-10'. I think we hit at the morning break or meeting, there was no one in the yard at all which was nice.

The 4x4s were a perfect example of culling, there was a fair sized open bundle, but they had all been culled through. So we were culling through someone else's culls. The strapped bundles right next to the open one we had to work with clearly showed that what was there was crap. I have zero problem culling then. They charge almost 3x the price of the despot or lowes.

The 2x12s were virgin stuff, so nice enough.

If I get any more hassles, I'm going to order 2x as much and return what I don't want.

 

[Carl]

All we have is big box close by me, I've culled stacks of lumber before with no problems or interference.
Sometimes I really wonder how a sawmill can actually ship some of the crap in the piles. bent, twisted, big knots, etc...

 

[Vince Pagliaroli]

All we have is big box close by me, I've culled stacks of lumber before with no problems or interference.
Sometimes I really wonder how a sawmill can actually ship some of the crap in the piles. bent, twisted, big knots, etc...

I'm no expert, but from what I've seen the rural Saw Mills/Lumber Yards keep the best for their longstanding customers and sell & ship the rest elsewhere. I have not found suitable lumber in a big box store that meet my needs.

Decoy carvers/makers can be very particular and will hunt for the best material and are willing to drive long distances to find what suits their needs. I have always lived in close proximity to very good Saw Mills and Lumber Yards. Most are off the grid and wonderful places to explore. The amount of various types of wood from all over the world can be astounding cuz of where the yards are. Then one realizes the owners are collectors and have contacts world wide. It seems like the mills and yards that are the most hidden have the best product. When ya can see and smell the wood smoke from the office wood stove heating it ya pretty much know ya found a good place. Many of the places look like oil paintings from the Industrial Age that still strike a cord in me.

I'm really enjoying this conversation as it stirs up wonderful memoires. Being a Geezer has many rewards...

my 2 cents

 

[Capt Rich Geminski]

You are the consumer.... Buy what you want, you don't need to take rejects. Take the manager out and ask if he would use the junk and pay his price for it?

 

[tod osier]

You are the consumer.... Buy what you want, you don't need to take rejects. Take the manager out and ask if he would use the junk and pay his price for it?

I think you are 100% right in the case where they are not doing a good job managing inventory and not removing discards

 

[Linhardt]

I learned Lumber Yard Etiquette from my good buddy that owned the boatworks and another good friend in commercial construction business. I was along to get a inside on getting very good White Pine, and other wood for my carving and art. I got a very good education me thinks.

The problem that you have with the employee is a common one from what I observed in the dealings I witnessed.

Both of my buddies did the same thing. They became very well liked by the Office Secretary aka Office Manager cuz that's the person that pretty much runs the show and calls the shots. Gifts that do not have to be expensive but thoughtful go a LONG way to give you more freedom to peruse the inventory and not thought of as a PITA. Once ya get the moniker of PITA it's pretty hard to shake but not impossible cuz it's seldom to late to change.

To get my foot in the door so to speak I gave gifts of artwork, apples, pastries, very good chocolate candy, etc. as the lumber yards were very rural. Bring enough so the person can share IF they want.

Once you are liked by the person calling the shots good things happen. They would save certain pieces of wood for me that others wanted but they knew I would like and put to good use. Call and they will tell you when to show up. Every Lumber Yard has a Secret Stash barn/building most often not on the same property. When they offer to take you there (it took me years) ya know yer in Good.

I doubt that this is a secret nor will it work all the time but it sure worked for my friends and I.

my 2 cents

I used to work in a lumber yard in my teens in the 80's. That lumber yard was owned by our neighbors back then and I grew up with their kids that now run it. Vince is spot on with his comment. We had a few individual public customers and contractors that would bring in food or gifts to staff during times like the holidays. Those individuals were pretty much given free range of the yard when they came in. But we also had customers and contractors that were a PITA all the time. They would tearing through the lumber looking for the perfect boards whether it would be a bunch or just one. Then it was up to the lumberyard staff to stack it all back up and clean up the area.

Here are a few tips from a ex-lumberyard worker:

1. Be friendly, respectful, and courteous to the staff. Get to know them personally at each visit so you can engage in conversations about their family, lives, etc. When they see out out in public they will make it a point to stop and talk and say Hi.
2. When going through lumber take the time to keep it piled nicely so the staff does not have to go back and redo them mess you made. Staff or at least I did when working would go to each place you went to make sure area is tidy and neat. If not I would make sure it was. So they know who does what at the lumber yard when they come in for lumber. If you clean up each time they do not tend to go to areas you were at to check. Also make sure if areas are locked up with a chain or ropes to hold lumber in, make sure they are secure also. Nothing worse then outdoor lumber yards where high wind comes through and materials are flying everywhere.
3. Clean up any trash such as tarps, spacer sticks, bands, etc. that you have to go through or take off the stack. Either pile it nicely in one area next to the stack or take it to the trash bin is to throw it in. Most time the staff will see you doing this and automatically come over to do it for you.
4. And like Vince said.... Gift go a long way. We had one guy that was not a contractor but came in the lumberyard often that would bring in things like tamales, ham, cheese and sausage trays, etc. on holiday as appreciation to the lumber yard. Items like that do not cost you much to give and staff will always appreciate the food and you. That guy always was well respected and whenever he had lumber that needed to be delivered we always made sure he got the best hand pick pieces. Or if he picked his own we did not mind him doing that. He always left the lumber as if it was hardly disturbed.

Here is one other tip that might get the guy out of your way. And it depends on the lumber yards policies. Do not go to the counter to order your lumber first. Tell them you need to get a few things and you are not sure exactly what you will need. Then ask if it is ok for you to go out and look around, load up stuff, and bring back to them to tally it up and pay. If you do that often enough and abide by the tips above most of the staff would not even bat and eye or even bother to assist you unless you requested help. They will eventually know that you like to look around and get what you need. They also know that whenever you are done you will be getting it rang up and paid for at the end. So no real need to keep and eye on you. Some staff have a lot of other things to do then spend a long time with a customer looking around at what they need. But you also have to be familiar with where everything is so that you do not need assistance all the time finding stuff.

But policies have changed over the years because of accidents, bad customers, etc. and some lumberyards do not allow you to be out there alone.

Also at some lumberyards they usually have pile of bad lumber that they do not know what to do with so that is why they try to keep it on top and get it out the door. At the lumber yard I worked at we always would try to make something out of it to sell. Such as dog houses, small picnic tables, flower boxes, mailboxes, etc. Whatever we could think of that bad lumber/construction materials could be cut up and used to make. If we had a pile of 2x6's that were undesirables then we would use them to make picnic tables to sell. A lot of customer knew that we would have different custom made stuff and come in just to check if we had anything they were interested in, or they would order something specific that we could make easily. They would never know that it was culled lumber. Gouges, knots, etc. were put in areas where it was not easily seen. Curves and twists were taken out by precision cutting or properly securing with fasteners, etc. They were happy with the end product and that is all that mattered.

And finally, assholes where treated like assholes....

 

[Steve Sanford]

Good morning, Anthony~

Great bunch of thoughts - no "culls" in the whole pile!

I grew up around a lumber yard (private company, high-end materials) - and later married a woman whose Dad owned a sawmill. (rough sawn White Pine with just the occasional retail sale). As it happens, I had to get some closet pole yesterday morning at my local yard. I had help as I picked through the stock to find the "perfect" one (no 16-foot closet pole will ever be dead straight....). So, I will bake something to deliver there sometime this Fall. And, I will bring something delicious to my mechanics next week.

All the best,

SJS