Decoy Rack Front vs. Rear Question for The Barnegat Bay Sneakbox Builders/Owners

[Eric Patterson]

I'm pulling my below question to Steve Sanford in the Guenther Garvey thread out for others to chime in. I searched the archives and to my surprise never found it discussed. Surely there are reasons and thoughts on the subject.

You mentioned in the traditional rear-deck rack configuration the tiller interfered with your decoys. In the pictures I see from places like Tuckerton and elsewhere the traditional build Barnegat Bay Sneakboxes have rear deck decoy racks. But I also see a lot with front racks. Did the front rack come about because of this issue? Is it possible to use a traditional rear rack with an outboard or are the sailing/row models the only ones that truly use the rear rack like it was originally intended, i.e. tails down bills up decoy storage?

Eric

 

[Derrell Jeffcoat]

I'm pulling my below question to Steve Sanford in the Guenther Garvey thread out for others to chime in. I searched the archives and to my surprise never found it discussed. Surely there are reasons and thoughts on the subject.

You mentioned in the traditional rear-deck rack configuration the tiller interfered with your decoys. In the pictures I see from places like Tuckerton and elsewhere the traditional build Barnegat Bay Sneakboxes have rear deck decoy racks. But I also see a lot with front racks. Did the front rack come about because of this issue? Is it possible to use a traditional rear rack with an outboard or are the sailing/row models the only ones that truly use the rear rack like it was originally intended, i.e. tails down bills up decoy storage?

Eric

I'm pulling my below question to Steve Sanford in the Guenther Garvey thread out for others to chime in. I searched the archives and to my surprise never found it discussed. Surely there are reasons and thoughts on the subject.

You mentioned in the traditional rear-deck rack configuration the tiller interfered with your decoys. In the pictures I see from places like Tuckerton and elsewhere the traditional build Barnegat Bay Sneakboxes have rear deck decoy racks. But I also see a lot with front racks. Did the front rack come about because of this issue? Is it possible to use a traditional rear rack with an outboard or are the sailing/row models the only ones that truly use the rear rack like it was originally intended, i.e. tails down bills up decoy storage?

Eric

Eric, I’ve got a traditional New Jersey sneakbox built by Bob Frick. It has the rear decoy rack. I have very little trouble driving my outboard with decoys in the back whether they are in bags or stacked in the traditional manner. It can be a bit tight at times but one can manage. Also, it is easy to stack bags on bow if carrying a good number of decoys in all but roughest water. If I remember right Craig Fallen (may not have last name spelled right) posted a build or at least pictures of us bow decoy rack. When I saw his post, I reached out to Mr. Fricke who said he could easily send me plans for a build.

 

[Derrell Jeffcoat]

Took me a minute to find a picture. This is up in your neck of the woods Eric.

 

[Wyatt Russo]

I don’t have a rack but I keep my decoys up in the bow so it helps get the boat up on plane easier. More weight in the back will make the boat plow more. Also if one falls off the front you’ll most likely see it were as in the back you probably won’t notice. Again, I don’t have a decoy rack on my boat but if I put one on I’d put it in the front.

 

[Dave Diefenderfer]

I'm pulling my below question to Steve Sanford in the Guenther Garvey thread out for others to chime in. I searched the archives and to my surprise never found it discussed. Surely there are reasons and thoughts on the subject.

You mentioned in the traditional rear-deck rack configuration the tiller interfered with your decoys. In the pictures I see from places like Tuckerton and elsewhere the traditional build Barnegat Bay Sneakboxes have rear deck decoy racks. But I also see a lot with front racks. Did the front rack come about because of this issue? Is it possible to use a traditional rear rack with an outboard or are the sailing/row models the only ones that truly use the rear rack like it was originally intended, i.e. tails down bills up decoy storage?

Eric

Eric, on my Sam Hunt BBSB, a displacement sailing hull, it originally had rear deck racks. I added them on the bow as well. I bag my decoys in slotted bags, and can fit 2 dozen on the rear deck, a 12 slot bag along both sides. As I stand to run the tiller, I can run the motor fine in this configuration. When I really load up (layout hunting open water alone), I can fit 4 and a half dozen on and in the boat. 2 dozen on the rear deck, another dozen on the bow, and 18 in the front of the cockpit. For yrs, I stuffed all the decoy bags on the bow deck when hunting, and laid a sheet of fast grass over them. Similarly, I lay grass over the rear deck and cockpit cover as well as the tiller and overlapping the racks to the waterline. Just before I got the South Bay, I added shock cord to the racks and stuff them with grass standing up. I think it breaks up the flat look better. Historically, I don't know if/when the front racks appeared, but have seen some boxes back in the 50s that had them.

 

[Eric Patterson]

Thanks for the input and I can see that some still do use the rear deck and run an outboard. But I can see why the progression to more front deck storage has occurred over the years, namely get weight forward for planing and carry more decoys.

@Derrell Jeffcoat I take it you hunt North Alabama at times? Was it your rig I saw at Racoon Creek WMA a few years back? It was someone who was a member here and had a BBSB there but I can't remember who.

 

[Anthony Babich]

I personally like the front rack much better, rear deck left open for motor use and as mentioned more weight up at the bow for performance while on plane. In this boat a 1923 Wilbur Ketchum Scooter has a removable mahogany decoy rack that is stowed away up in the bow when towed, hunted or stored away. You'll notice in Dave Clark's Estuary's those boats have dual racks for both gear storage & decoy which Is nice too








The Estuary:

 

[Eric Patterson]

Anthony, et al.

I was at my shop last night looking at the hard dodger on my broadbill and an idea I had a few years back came to me. You are probably too young to remember the decoy ponchos used many years ago. They are just like the name suggests, a poncho with decoy pockets sewn in front and back that allow a hunter to pack in about a dozen hand carved decoys, gently. If I can find a canvas guy I believe he could sew a poncho for the hard dodger. On the exterior for certain and maybe even the interior. I bet I could easily get a dozen decoys on the outside and they would be out of the way. Hmmmm, I need a duckboat tailor!

 

[Derrell Jeffcoat]

Thanks for the input and I can see that some still do use the rear deck and run an outboard. But I can see why the progression to more front deck storage has occurred over the years, namely get weight forward for planing and carry more decoys.

@Derrell Jeffcoat I take it you hunt North Alabama at times? Was it your rig I saw at Racoon Creek WMA a few years back? It was someone who was a member here and had a BBSB there but I can't remember

 

[Derrell Jeffcoat]

I believe so. I actually hunted it more several years back. Been a few years since I’ve been. Enjoyed it there; especially after the holidays.

 

[Derrell Jeffcoat]

Anthony, et al.

I was at my shop last night looking at the hard dodger on my broadbill and an idea I had a few years back came to me. You are probably too young to remember the decoy ponchos used many years ago. They are just like the name suggests, a poncho with decoy pockets sewn in front and back that allow a hunter to pack in about a dozen hand carved decoys, gently. If I can find a canvas guy I believe he could sew a poncho for the hard dodger. On the exterior for certain and maybe even the interior. I bet I could easily get a dozen decoys on the outside and they would be out of the way. Hmmmm, I need a duckboat tailor!

like that idea Eric. If you can’t come up with something I’ve taken two pocket bags and strapped their carrying straps together and placed right in front of dodger, one on either side. Works decently.

 

[Eric Patterson]

@Derrell Jeffcoat I found the thread with the pictures of that rig I saw at Raccoon Creek. It wasn't you on that day but if I see another BBSB you can bet I'll look for the owner, perhaps you, to chat.

Hey gdriscoll, were those your BBSBs at Raccoon Creek? (Pics)

If it was we were hunting on the other side of 117 from you.

duckboats.net

 

[JOHNMULCAHY]

My Gus Heinrich’s box has rear decoy rack I don’t think u could fit a front setup on mine with the full scoop dodger I usually stack decoys in there along with my gear if it’s snotty out

 

[Joe Friday]

I personally like the front rack much better, rear deck left open for motor use and as mentioned more weight up at the bow for performance while on plane. In this boat a 1923 Wilbur Ketchum Scooter has a removable mahogany decoy rack that is stowed away up in the bow when towed, hunted or stored away. You'll notice in Dave Clark's Estuary's those boats have dual racks for both gear storage & decoy which Is nice too

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The Estuary:


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Fabulous Pictures!

 

[GWDriscoll]

@Derrell Jeffcoat I found the thread with the pictures of that rig I saw at Raccoon Creek. It wasn't you on that day but if I see another BBSB you can bet I'll look for the owner, perhaps you, to chat.

Hey gdriscoll, were those your BBSBs at Raccoon Creek? (Pics)

If it was we were hunting on the other side of 117 from you.

duckboats.net

Hi Eric. Long time…. Yes that was me at Raccon creek in 2014. I had a Sam Hunt and Bob Fricke BBSB on a dual Jet ski trailer. I have trailered both boats back north and gave to friends in NJ and De.

 

[Eric Patterson]

Hi Eric. Long time…. Yes that was me at Raccon creek in 2014. I had a Sam Hunt and Bob Fricke BBSB on a dual Jet ski trailer. I have trailered both boats back north and gave to friends in NJ and De.

They were cool boats. Probably won't ever see a true BBSB there again. Good to see you are still around.

 

[GWDriscoll]

Yes, still around. Duck hunting is my first love. I may stray from time to time, deer hunting, kids sports, etc but I always Come back to it. Usually a new dog fires me up again.

 

[Vince Pagliaroli]

The rear decoy rack design of the BBSB went hand in hand with NJ style decoys. Decoys that are/were hollow, light weight, not over size, and No Keels. In other words the racks and decoys were a perfect match. Study the old photos of the boats with the decoys and the artistry of both. How well many decoys were made to fit in a now a days small area. Less was More and no one area did it/does it better than NEW JERESY. The old gunners knew their trade very well and would put us all to shame.

Every time I hold a old NJ decoy in my hands the design, craftsmanship and artistry amazes me. There is a distilled purity in them that no other decoys have.

my 2 cents.

 

[David K]

Anthony, et al.

I was at my shop last night looking at the hard dodger on my broadbill and an idea I had a few years back came to me. You are probably too young to remember the decoy ponchos used many years ago. They are just like the name suggests, a poncho with decoy pockets sewn in front and back that allow a hunter to pack in about a dozen hand carved decoys, gently. If I can find a canvas guy I believe he could sew a poncho for the hard dodger. On the exterior for certain and maybe even the interior. I bet I could easily get a dozen decoys on the outside and they would be out of the way. Hmmmm, I need a duckboat tailor!

The rear decoy rack design of the BBSB went hand in hand with NJ style decoys. Decoys that are/were hollow, light weight, not over size, and No Keels. In other words the racks and decoys were a perfect match. Study the old photos of the boats with the decoys and the artistry of both. How well many decoys were made to fit in a now a days small area. Less was More and no one area did it/does it better than NEW JERESY. The old gunners knew their trade very well and would put us all to shame.

Every time I hold a old NJ decoy in my hands the design, craftsmanship and artistry amazes me. There is a distilled purity in them that no other decoys have.

my 2 cents.

The rear decoy rack design of the BBSB went hand in hand with NJ style decoys. Decoys that are/were hollow, light weight, not over size, and No Keels. In other words the racks and decoys were a perfect match. Study the old photos of the boats with the decoys and the artistry of both. How well many decoys were made to fit in a now a days small area. Less was More and no one area did it/does it better than NEW JERESY. The old gunners knew their trade very well and would put us all to shame.

Every time I hold a old NJ decoy in my hands the design, craftsmanship and artistry amazes me. There is a distilled purity in them that no other decoys have.

my 2 cents.

Oh man.... I guess I'm going to bring my boat back to the canvas shop. Decoy storage inside the dodger sounds great.

 

[Craig F]

Eric, I’ve got a traditional New Jersey sneakbox built by Bob Frick. It has the rear decoy rack. I have very little trouble driving my outboard with decoys in the back whether they are in bags or stacked in the traditional manner. It can be a bit tight at times but one can manage. Also, it is easy to stack bags on bow if carrying a good number of decoys in all but roughest water. If I remember right Craig Fallen (may not have last name spelled right) posted a build or at least pictures of us bow decoy rack. When I saw his post, I reached out to Mr. Fricke who said he could easily send me plans for a build.

Just seeing this post I'm assuming this is referencing me. I still have my Fricke box though I haven't used it since converting to the church of Roy Schellinger.

My box originally came stock with traditional rear decoy racks. My father had a Fricke box in the 80s that I grew up with and he had Bob make him front decoy racks for carrying larger broadbill rigs and the like. When I got mine I used some reference photos from his old boat and made my own lower profile front racks. One, for carrying more decoys and putting more weight forward, and two, for using salt hay on the racks for grassing purposes.

The original layout of my boat, with LL bean magnum black ducks



Front and rear racks, ungrassed



Boat fully grassed and hunting