JOHNMULCAHY
New member
I purchased a 36 pro drive last night ….i wanna experiment it on the wrangler 15 i think that boat would be lights out killer with it I currently run a 40 Johnson 2 smoker an she’s fasttt ..decid mmm decision…decisions
So I did a thing ….. not sure if I’ll like it lol
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William Reinicke
Active member
Do not expect that pro drive to be anything like an outboard. I say it all the time, if I could go to an outboard, I would in a heart beat. There are 3 holes I hunt, not a chance in hell you are getting to with an outboard. My water fluctuates like crazy here too, so some years, every place I hunt mudrig is needed. Some years (like this year) I wish I had a motor lift and a 40-75 hp outboard laying around that I could swap out motors. Ive always owned mudrigs, been a mudbuddy guy forever now. Im on my 3rd, and running the 5000 efi. We run at elevation here, so the efi was a game changer. Changing jets out for different elevations sucked but was necessary to get proper performance. Some of lakes are 8000 feet and some are 3000 feet that I hunt.
What you will find, these lawn mower engines just do not have the torque an outboard does. Ive never driven a pro drive, but many years ago, on a mudmotor forum, some cnc guys redesigned every part of the prodrive. The thread was like 40-50 pages long on all the work he did, but when it was all said and done, he had that rig running almost 40 and bullet proof. Best I see is 32 in my 1756 havoc. I had a 37 efi before this and best I would see was 26ish. Not sure the weight of the wrangler but at 15 feet and a 36 hp, I would think you would see mid 20's pretty easily. Also, look into rooster marine props. I hear they add quite a bit of performance. Still trying to get my hands on one, but everyone I know that owns them, love them.
William Reinicke
Active member
let me say this though, I own a 150 optimax on my bass boat and this 5000 efi on my duckboat. A lawn mower engine is SO MUCH easier to maintain and service than an outboard. I pretty much am not afraid to do anything or dig into any part of the mudbuddy. Outboards scare me a little when I have to service a part or something goes out. So there is that one real positive between the two.
As mentioned above, I doubt you'll get anywhere near the top end as you got with the 40 hp OB. Before you drill holes to mount it, check transom height against the motor. I'd suggest calling ProDrive, they're very helpful. Not sure, but you might need a jack plate to maximize performance on your boat. Keep in mind the PD is very heavy compared to a 2 stroke OB, you'll be quite stern heavy. When you take it for it's first spin, it may take a while to get the hang of it. There's a learning curve. Sometimes you need to start with the motor in the full down position and trim up once you're on plane.
William
My son bought a Mudbuddy when he was in college. It was used and abused. He ran it about 30 seconds at my shop and I knew we were in for a major repair. The seals were shot letting water/grit to the bearings and they were sloppy and noisy. We had to do a total breakdown of the driveshaft and replace a bunch of parts. It was like new when we finished but there was one thing I wasn't happy about and it failed like I thought it would a year or so later. I'm referring to the electronic clutch. It had a stamped metal keyway that took every bit of the load to the driveshaft. My son's motor idled high so every time he engaged the clutch with the prop in the water it SLAMMED the key into the keyway eventually busting it and requiring a new clutch and another partial tear-down. We rebuilt it three times over the course of about 5 years. I have no idea if they are still made that way, but it was seriously underbuilt for loads faced. Other than that, and the wimpy failure prone tilt cylinder, I liked the set-up. I also liked their tech support. They were very good when we needed help and parts.
My son bought a Mudbuddy when he was in college. It was used and abused. He ran it about 30 seconds at my shop and I knew we were in for a major repair. The seals were shot letting water/grit to the bearings and they were sloppy and noisy. We had to do a total breakdown of the driveshaft and replace a bunch of parts. It was like new when we finished but there was one thing I wasn't happy about and it failed like I thought it would a year or so later. I'm referring to the electronic clutch. It had a stamped metal keyway that took every bit of the load to the driveshaft. My son's motor idled high so every time he engaged the clutch with the prop in the water it SLAMMED the key into the keyway eventually busting it and requiring a new clutch and another partial tear-down. We rebuilt it three times over the course of about 5 years. I have no idea if they are still made that way, but it was seriously underbuilt for loads faced. Other than that, and the wimpy failure prone tilt cylinder, I liked the set-up. I also liked their tech support. They were very good when we needed help and parts.
William Reinicke
Active member
So that’s one of the only things I’ve never had to do or mess with. My first didn’t have any reverse on it. Was a super super old first gen 20 hp Koehler. 15mph boat at best.
My 37 efi was bullet proof. Never had a single problem with it and I ran it hard. I also take care of my stuff, and every fall my motor get new oil, fresh spark plugs and fresh grease all the way around. Every 3 years I’ll replace transmission oil. But to this day, have never had to pull the transmission and flywheel and dig that deep into one. The wiring on these is stupid simple, the valve lash is right there…. I mean there’s really not much to these motors. I have heard getting the belt housing off can be a nightmare though. And I do have a very very small oil leak on this motor so I might be doing this project next summer. Might just pay to have someone repair it also… I’m going to want to make decoys vs playing mechanic on a motor.
My current one is a champ until i submerged it early this season. I had about a gallon of water in the belt housing after the accident, and I had to go through everything. I was worried about electrical issues after being submerged, and sure enough, my motor wouldn’t go into drive the other day. Reverse engage every time. Again, simple simple wiring, has to be a loose connection somewhere or a failed magnet (but I’ve never seen or heard of a magnet failing so naturally always looking for wiring) and I had a loose ground connection that goes to the magnet. Fingers crossed that’s all that is.
I’ve heard that one should not shift gears on these motors unless idling below 1000 rpm. My 5000 efi idles around 850 and it’s never had any issues with shifting. It’s not clunky at all and I do think they have changed the design, because I saw a guy slamming a motor in and out of gears while keeping throttle pegged. I thought for sure he was gonna blow it up, nope motor just kept forcing in and out, but it looked and sounded terrible. This was many years ago and many jumped on his case for doing that.
Any idea why the motor had a high idle? What year motor was this mudbuddy?
William Reinicke
Active member
This is exactly how my 5000 efi and 37 efi are built. Ive watched this video a couple times, because I am sure I will be removing all this to get to that oil leak to repair.
It was an older 35hp model. 2012 or thereabouts. He and his best friend pooled their money and bought it when they broke college students. It got them many places and home again. The wiring had been butchered before they got it and failed a few times in the field. We stripped all of it out and rewired it. That solved the flaky things it would do. We worked on it a fair amount but it was old, so I expected it. It was an opportunity for me to teach him about working on boats so I was glad we got that time together and he got experience. This is the first season he no longer has it. He bought a Reaper with an older Yamaha 40 two stoke. I expect half-way through the season he will miss the mudmotor and buy a second rig with a modern mud motor on it.
That clutch keyway is WAY more built than the model Thomas had. I guarantee they had a lot of failures and compelled them to redesign it.
That is another thing I liked about that company. They have good videos for DIY owners.
William Reinicke
Active member
So I cruised around youtube and found an old old clutch pull. I see that keyhole design you are talking about. I could see failure now. During that time frame, I was running my first gen without reverse. The shaft on it was pretty long for a short tail. It was kind of a combo length between a long tail and a short tail. Mudbuddy has always been good to me as well. Every time I call them, they spend time with me and always get back to me if they do not have an answer per se. Im even contemplating taking this 5000 efi to them during the offseason and just having them go through it all professionally. Sometimes I do not trust the little lawn mower shops around town. I could make a little weekend out of it and take the family on a get away vacation and let them go through the entire motor for me.
Im pretty certain those reapers are very similar to my havoc. Not sure the weight on the reapers, but im assuming fairly light if it has ribbing on the bottom of the hull. Tell him no lower than a 40 hp. 37 efi I had was the lowest hp rating I would go on my 1756. Again, I am at elevation and I lose 10-15% hp on all my boat motors here. I had to go all the way down to a 19p prop on my bass boat just to get it on plane. In the summer, I could even afford to go down to a 17p but I refuse to do that. When I go to oklahoma and fish with my brother, I can put a 23p prop back on it and gain about 12-15 mph. At home its a 50mph boat, in Oklahoma its a 62-65 mph boat. So if at sea level, he may have a little better luck with a lower hp mudmotor, but they just dont have the bite that an outboard does.
The dream dream set up is a 16 ft havoc/reaper with a 115 on the back. We see 50mph with 4 dudes, 2 dogs, and 3 dozen decoys and cooler of beverages. Great boat in clean water, but if mud and silty nastiness, its a bit much on these types of rigs. Just keeping the telltale open is what boogers it up. You put a hydro JP with that 115, and you can borderline get everywhere a mudrig can get. The only downside is they are not near as tough. Thank god my buddy (owner of the boat) has way more experience than I do. I hit something with my mudrig, I just stay throttled. I bump something with my outboard (almost never happens in a bass boat), I come off throttle instantly. One day running WOT and about 45+, we hit a rock, he never lets off throttle and he keeps telling us in the boat, as soon as he comes out of it, his lower is done. Shocked, boat seemed fine to me, but sure enough as soon as we get to the ramp, no more gears and boat wont engage reverse or forward. He just knew when he hit that rock, his lower was toast as soon as he came out of the throttle. How he had the mindset to keep going, kind of amazed me as we went another 7ish miles back to the ramp with a "blown lower". 2k repair as well.
Talk about fun though, this 115 setup is easier to drive than my 5000 efi mudmotor. When we first set it up, we thought we would need the big tiller handle.... nope waste of money, not a pain at all to handle. We have set two boats up this way now and they are just haulin mofos. Dont have one where I live, but in other parts of the country, this is the best set up I have ever been in.
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Scott Kirkman
New member
William, that sounds fun, and a little scary. Sometimes the 40 on my 1648 isn't quite enough, but I'm not sure I need that much!
William Reinicke
Active member
We were originally going to do a 90, but the 115 and 90 are the exact same weight. No transom issues, despite being a little over hp rating. And no one said its WOT or nothing, although mercurys like to be run hot. The closer you have a mercury to the rev limiter, usually the happier they are. Was always told to drive a mercury like you stole it, but there are just some mornings, its too darn cold to be running WOT like that. I love the quietness of an outboard and just the sheer get up and go. One of these days, they will figure out an air cooled motor they can put on a mudrig platform that is way better than these marine lawn mower engines. Supposedly the sport v lower was designed by mercury. It is supposed to be able to take up to a 125 hp motor. When designed, they didn't realize all that would be put on top was a 35-50 hp lawn mower motor. Ive always thought that if they could somehow put a small motorcycle motor on that style motor and it could work real well and be the best mudmotor out there. There is such a partnership with briggs to all these companies though, I think it would be hard to go away from the culture around these motors.
William
Have you seen this?
www.freedom-outboard.com
Have you seen this?
Revolutionary Mud Motors | Freedom Outboard
Freedom Outboard is a manufacturer of revolutionary custom saltwater and mud outboard motors. Build your custom motor today!
www.freedom-outboard.com
William Reinicke
Active member
I knew about freedom outboard when they were just a concept still. They had major issues trying to figure out the radiator situation. I kind of forgot about them. But believe it or not, they have been around almost a decade now. Haven't really taken the market by storm. I havent watched the video yet, but I will once I get a free minute from work, and that already looks WAY DIFFERENT than what I saw when I first looked into these. hate the shark fin on top lol. I would trim that off in a hurry. Ill get back to you on my thoughts when I have a minute to watch this.William
Have you seen this?
Revolutionary Mud Motors | Freedom Outboard
Freedom Outboard is a manufacturer of revolutionary custom saltwater and mud outboard motors. Build your custom motor today!
So I watched it, and I will have to go find some more youtube vids on these. Their website is about as vague as I remember but they have changed the overall design a lot. That thing that looks like a mudmotor muffler is actually the coolant reservoir (thats new) which then makes me wonder how this works now. When they first first came out, there was a radiator you mounted in the boat and that was the coolant circulation. They didnt have any protection on the lower, looks like they have those wing things (kind of stupid) and a rubber bumper on the front. I can promise you, hit something hard with the front of that lower, and I highly doubt you dont crack gears. I would like to see how hard of an impact that can take without losing the lower.
I know havoc jumped a boat and mudmotor coming down a river. Show me that happening with one of these and I will gladly get rid of my mudmotor and give one of these a try. Its scary though, not even their price for the motor is listed at all. Is this a 10k motor, a 15k motor, a 20k motor..... Am I going to be able to buy 2 new 5000 efi for the price of one of these that have me questioning things? This is all the issues I ran into 10 years ago when I was looking at their concept models.
Show me a freedom outboard do this and im all in.
This jump at 19 seconds looks pretty serious. I mean maybe I might look into these motors. I do love the idea of a quieter, much higher torque motor on my boat.
And havoc boats are actually advertising for them.... maybe just maybe they got stuff figured out. I might just do something stupid.....
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It looks like the stock lower unit with stuff bolted to it. Do you think those gearboxes are up to the punishment hard strikes create? Both to the case and the teeth? They have licked the cooling, but I'm under the impression impact has to be dealt with too.
JOHNMULCAHY
New member
Well got the motor all put back together it was used at a console motor so I had to put tiller back on an shortin a ton of wires as everything was super long got that all done today an I ended up breaking the ear off the fuel pump 
but another is ordered already … I feel like it’ll be a little heavy but I think it’ll plane that boat no problem I guess it’ll be trial and error that boat isn’t to heavy I do have a 12 gallon tank mounted in the front an usually keep all gear up front as well an run with 40hp in the upper 30’s with 2 guys so I’m not worried about speed but as long as I’m gonna get into my spots with out a push pole … man my arms are getting huge from pushin lol 
I also have a prop boat an 2 sneak boxes as well so I think a mud boat was up my alley .. thanks for all the info the price I paid for this couldn’t bat an eye at it let’s just say that !
but another is ordered already … I feel like it’ll be a little heavy but I think it’ll plane that boat no problem I guess it’ll be trial and error that boat isn’t to heavy I do have a 12 gallon tank mounted in the front an usually keep all gear up front as well an run with 40hp in the upper 30’s with 2 guys so I’m not worried about speed but as long as I’m gonna get into my spots with out a push pole … man my arms are getting huge from pushin lol I also have a prop boat an 2 sneak boxes as well so I think a mud boat was up my alley .. thanks for all the info the price I paid for this couldn’t bat an eye at it let’s just say that !
William Reinicke
Active member
I mean I wouldnt think so because I saw how soft we hit that rock on that 115 and it knocked that whole lower out of commission. But watch those videos I posted.... they are beating the living snot out of these motors. I came across some comments of the 60 hp motors only going like 31-34 and I saw a video of one on the GPS doing 33. I do 30-32 with my 5000 efi when I have a fresh prop. This weekend I did 27-28 with a wore out prop, 2 dudes, a dog and 3 dozen duck decoys. So I guess the only thing I would hope for is a little better performance if I am going to drop 14-18k for one of these motors. Its an interesting concept and if they truly worked out all the bugs and issues, I still would probably go to one of these for the steering and quiet factor. My mudmotor wears me out sometimes on long runs. Im telling you, that 115 tiller is lights out easier than running my mudrig.
William Reinicke
Active member
keep us updated on what your results are with this boat. i think you might be pleasantly surprised as long as you are not trying to achieve speed. You will likely be about 10 mph slower, if I was a betting man, but Ive been wrong in the past and now I am curious on what you get on this set up. Any idea what your weight different is between your outboard and this prodrive?Well got the motor all put back together it was used at a console motor so I had to put tiller back on an shortin a ton of wires as everything was super long got that all done today an I ended up breaking the ear off the fuel pump
Scott Kirkman
New member
Remember the experiment either Go-Devil or Mud Buddy did with Harley Davidson years ago?