2 cycle engine oil...

tod osier

tod osier

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I have 3 things I use mixed gas in, my 3.5 hp kicker, chain saw and string trimmer. Is it better to use oil for air cooled engines or water cooled engines in all (I assume it isn't ideal either way)? I have been using WC oil in all, since I mix it up for my kicker and never use it and want to keep making new every year (and the outboard is the most expensive and important of the three).

Suggestions?

T
 
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Tod, Generally the water cooled oil is not up to the task of an air cooled engine. I would use the air cooled oil in all three. Do not overmix oil in any premix though because it could cause a lean run damage.
 
Tod, Generally the water cooled oil is not up to the task of an air cooled engine. I would use the air cooled oil in all three. Do not overmix oil in any premix though because it could cause a lean run damage.
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Thanks Tom,

That is opposite what I've been doing, but that is what my gut suggested would be best, since I was thinking the air cooled motors run at higher temps.

What do you mean by overmix? Put too much oil?

T
 
Tod,he means too much gasoline,and not enough oil, Some of the smaller engines require a different ratio mix,most outboards are a 50:1 mix,I know my one chain saw is a 32:1 so be careful, hope this helps Brian Rippelmeyer
 
Tod,he means too much gasoline,and not enough oil, Some of the smaller engines require a different ratio mix,most outboards are a 50:1 mix,I know my one chain saw is a 32:1 so be careful, hope this helps Brian Rippelmeyer
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Got it, never heard the teminology.
 
Tod,he means too much gasoline,and not enough oil, Some of the smaller engines require a different ratio mix,most outboards are a 50:1 mix,I know my one chain saw is a 32:1 so be careful, hope this helps Brian Rippelmeyer
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I'm pretty sure Tom meant to not use too much oil, not what is mentioned above. Too much oil means not as much gas which means lean condition. In other words, the higher the concentration of oil there is in the gas, the less gas goes into the cylinder for each compression which will cause a lean gas condition which will cause an engine to burn up.

Mark W
 
Good catch Mark, that is exactly what I ment. Most folks think if some is good, more is better but what you described is what CAN happen. Not every time but if you understand the idea you will not have the trouble. Good luck all.
 
Good catch Mark, that is exactly what I ment. Most folks think if some is good, more is better but what you described is what CAN happen. Not every time but if you understand the idea you will not have the trouble. Good luck all.
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Got it. They are all 50:1.
 
I have learned something new today, did not know that I appreciate the info,sorry Tod did not mean to lead you astray,Brian Rippelmeyer
 
Brian, No harm done, this is what I do for a living so I just had to jump in. "You can learn more here by accident than elsewhere on purpose";-)
 
Something just doesn't sound right to me about the oil mix? I was involved with racing prams on Biscayne Bay some years ago. The engines were 2 cylinder and 4 cylinder Mercurys. We doubled the amount of oil to gas for racing just as was suggested during break in. I will post on the Dillon racing site and see if anyone still does this. The engines had polished out ports, but the displacement couldn't be altered. Also the exhaust/intermediate housings were opened either with saw cuts or drilling.

I keep several containers of oil on hand as I like to use Echo in their products and Steil in the saw. The containers are small. I have a Honda generator (hurricanes make them a must have) I keep Sears air cooled generator oil for it. Safest would be to use just what is required for each.

Frank Kapp
 
Frank, A couple points.
1. Racers do all kinds of things to keep their motors together.
2. Racers would rejet to allow for the oil displacing gasoline.
3. Maybe we arn't talking gasoline but alcohol which was common in some outboard racing circles. ???
4. It takes a combination of things to cause catastrophies such as overrev, lack of lube, wear, heat and /or ????
5. Maybe the racers were using castor bean oil which smells great, make that GREAT, and the rules are a bit different there too.
6. Like most engine advise there are very few absolutes and this is one, just a caution not to go nuts with a couple extra glugs of oil.
7. This does not change the recommended ratios which are up to the manufactures.
The main reason I piped up was to caution everyone about one of the urban myths.
Oh yes and the double oil on break in is still a good idea, just avoid extended high speed running.
I could make a disparaging remark about Mercs but will pass at this time ;-);-)
Good conversation.
 


Take a look at Amsoil. Their Saber (for pre-mix) would work pretty well across your broad lineup of applications.

I use their HP injector in my outboard (along with Yamaha 2M) and their Interceptor in the sled. I am happy with them... Less smoke than competing products and plugs run real clean. I run their Saber in all my lawn stuff and a little kicker motor and am happy with it in that application too though I can't say it minimizes smoke as much as the other products.

There's some good reading on the WEb site.
 
Tom,

I'm wondering if I accidently learned something from this thread or if I'm just more confused than before.

Yamaha recommends a 100:1 mix for their outboards. But my dealer told me to ignore that and use a 50:1 mix like most other manufacturers recommend. I always figured that the extra oil couldn't hurt, so I've been running my 15hp on a 50:1 mix.

so, have I been running the motor too lean?

More importantly, can I tell the guys at my Yamaha dealer you say they're full of castor bean oil?

Rick
 
Rick, 50:1 TCW (two cycle water) in any outboard is not going to make anyone run lean. The dream of a premix 100:1 is just that, a dream. OMC tried it and reversed their recommendation right quick. Some injection systems will cut back to 100:1 at idle but when you turn up the heat the oil flow increases. So you don't have to tell anyone they are full of castor oil, just keep doing what you are. The recommendation of 100:1 PLUS the oil injection for the first tank is for breakin and that works if you follow proceedure.
As far as Amsoil or any synthetic you are all on your own as far as this old school guy is concerned. Factory recomendation is the way to go and if the factory recomends synthetic OK OK I just don't like it much. That is not to say it is bad oil as much as I have seen some really bad things happen way back when that probably don't apply now. All I'm saying is I don't like it.
One other point I'll throw into the mix is be careful mixing for the really old stuff, most of those used 30 wt non detergent oil at 16:1 and needed it to seal the crankshaft. Also 16:1 doesn't mean with detergent oil, that will make some really weird deposits.
 
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I love the smell of castor oil in the morning as much as you Tom but unfortunately, I have turned to the dark side of synthetics. Run them in the vehicles and run them in the 2 smokers. The dirt bikes run so much better with the Amsoil than they ever did on the bean oils. Significanlty less smoke and no plug fouling. No spooge on the exhaust pipe either. Big difference. Hope I'm not burning anything up. You old farts just can't make the change can you?

You get that iPod up and running yet Tom?

Mark W
 
Mark,
Yup falling in love with the new music machine.
No I don't think you are burning anything up, just a geezer thing.
We should think about traveling to LaCrosse together if that might work out.
 
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