Any one else see this video? I was on the same WMA this past weekend and have my thoughts on the matter that I'll share later. For now I'm curious what you folks think of this.
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Arkansas Opener Video from Public Land
- Thread starter Eric Patterson
- Start date
BobThompson
New member
I will offer my thoughts, but I haven’t duck hunted since 1990 and so am out of touch. They had a productive hunt. Nothing I want to be part of. Looks like combat duck hunting. Good numbers of birds though. I enjoy hunting with a good friend or two or by myself. Crowds and hunting don’t go together for me. To each their own.
That ramp scene is foreign to me. A shameful underbelly of the sport that reinforces negative stereotypes in the non-hunting public. I wouldn't want to be there, but have to admit to being entertained while viewing from home. Sometimes we see three or four other boats at the ramp, but nothing like in the video. Many guys spend several days sleeping in their spot before opening day, having done it years ago I kind of miss the camping aspect. No doubt in my mind that the campouts reduce races from the ramp.
Awesome number of birds, I can see why there are so many hunters. I hunt for a week to see the number of birds filmed in the first minute of the video.
Awesome number of birds, I can see why there are so many hunters. I hunt for a week to see the number of birds filmed in the first minute of the video.
Clarification. When I said "I was there" I meant on the same WMA. I was not a part of anything to do with the video. Sorry for the confusion. I've edited the post to prevent further confusion.
Geoff Pike
Active member
I think that is more ducks in one morning than I see in a season. The mass start from camp to hunting area was interesting, although nothing I want to be part of. Maybe in my younger years, I did a lot of foolish stuff then.
I also consider shooting them once they have landed in the decoys unsporting, but maybe that's just me. I'm interested in what you thought Eric
I also consider shooting them once they have landed in the decoys unsporting, but maybe that's just me. I'm interested in what you thought Eric
Kevin Layne
Active member
I think it's sad. I'd want no part in it.
Craig F
Well-known member
Very interesting to see how other parts of the country do it. Higdon does have a good production team behind their videos which I can appreciate.
As for the mayhem we don't have anything near that level here on the East Coast, but I still find myself sleeping in more and more and avoiding the crowds. Just not something I'd want to be involved in.
As for the mayhem we don't have anything near that level here on the East Coast, but I still find myself sleeping in more and more and avoiding the crowds. Just not something I'd want to be involved in.
Douglas Petro
New member
Bayou Meto? I would like to do that just once LOL.
Scott Kirkman
New member
I appreciate how much fun they had doing this, but way too many participants for my liking. I'm not a fan of hunting with more than 2 other hunters. As I understand it, in the area shown in the video numbers are necessary to hold down the top spots. Not for me, but I would love to witness a timber hunt once in my lifetime.
I was on this same WMA on Saturday. It was crowded and the ducks were mostly gone. We used one of the more popular ramps and the parking lot was full, the road to it was full, front yards of adjacent cabins were full, and the overflow parking lot was full. I had to walk 400 yards to get back to the ramp from where I eventually parked. Launching was done in an orderly fashion while I was there observing and waiting to launch. I was actually expecting some drama but there wasn't any while I was there, which is good. The river was crowded with boats racing to spots. Full throttle is all anyone knows and if your rig is faster than the one ahead you must pass. Must be a law because everyone does it. More on this later.
The video hasn't been applauded by Arkansas hunters. In fact, I'd say Higdon loses more money in Ark hunter revenue than this video will generate from hunters elsewhere. They deleted all the comments and turned them off. I think that is a chicken shit move by them. I mean if you are going to put products out there you should stand behind them and the media promoting them. I lost some respect for them for that move. I thought the guy doing all the talking, Beau I assume, is really sophomoric. He doesn't come across as more than a few seasons under his belt and his over-enthusiastic energy is probably some of the same stuff the folks racing to holes have. I also thought the video quality was terrible, with the exception of the B-roll which, uncharacteristic of the rest of the video, was quite good. The numerous water swats, entirely unnecessary to put on public display, came off quite distasteful.
But the video did do one on thing extremely well. It very accurately captured present-day behavior on Ark WMAs. I've hunted these areas for over 30 years, off and on, and the starkest change is boat technology that allows hunters to travel at high rates of speed. For certain the adrenaline-charged race to the hole attracts many to the river that would not be there were it for ducks alone. Many are thrill-seekers, not hunters.
Years ago Ark G&F put a target on the time you can leave. They did this in response to season-long hole-monopolizing practiced by groups whose members took turns sleeping in the hole to block anyone outside their group from using. When the 4 a.m. rule was established, they might as well have installed drag racing trees at all the launches, because make no mistake, it's a race. The boat manufacturers, seeing an opportunity for economic gain, engineered and produced faster hulls, not just in straight lines, but hulls that can run wide open while making hard turns. These things grip the water even with outboards turning full throttle tiller all the way to one side. Gone are the days of 25 hp motors on WMAs that don't require them. 40hp and up with many "built" to squeeze every rpm the laws of physics allow. Never mind the fact first-come first-serve no longer applies on some WMAs and you can "join" another hunting party who was first, negating the need to race, folks race. For no other reason young men want to race and the state is complacent.
Now Ark G&F have another problem, hunter safety. This weekend one boat traveling at a high rate of speed hit an unmovable object resulting in it coming to a very fast stop. The boat following was too close and ran over the stuck boat, sinking it. Luckily, the operator was not injured, this time. This is just one of many close calls that happen throughout the season. But for absolute certainty given the speeds, G's, hazards, congestion, competitiveness and tempers clouding judgement there will be fatalities. Folks, Ark G&F has a mess on its hands, one they created by the 4a.m. rule, and a good lawyer with a sympathetic jury in a wrongful death case will have no problem extracting tens of millions of dollars in damages from the state.
Ark needs to clean up this mess, now, and I fear it will be by limiting hunter numbers via draw, and yet another place I enjoyed hunting at my leisure will be off-limits.
The video hasn't been applauded by Arkansas hunters. In fact, I'd say Higdon loses more money in Ark hunter revenue than this video will generate from hunters elsewhere. They deleted all the comments and turned them off. I think that is a chicken shit move by them. I mean if you are going to put products out there you should stand behind them and the media promoting them. I lost some respect for them for that move. I thought the guy doing all the talking, Beau I assume, is really sophomoric. He doesn't come across as more than a few seasons under his belt and his over-enthusiastic energy is probably some of the same stuff the folks racing to holes have. I also thought the video quality was terrible, with the exception of the B-roll which, uncharacteristic of the rest of the video, was quite good. The numerous water swats, entirely unnecessary to put on public display, came off quite distasteful.
But the video did do one on thing extremely well. It very accurately captured present-day behavior on Ark WMAs. I've hunted these areas for over 30 years, off and on, and the starkest change is boat technology that allows hunters to travel at high rates of speed. For certain the adrenaline-charged race to the hole attracts many to the river that would not be there were it for ducks alone. Many are thrill-seekers, not hunters.
Years ago Ark G&F put a target on the time you can leave. They did this in response to season-long hole-monopolizing practiced by groups whose members took turns sleeping in the hole to block anyone outside their group from using. When the 4 a.m. rule was established, they might as well have installed drag racing trees at all the launches, because make no mistake, it's a race. The boat manufacturers, seeing an opportunity for economic gain, engineered and produced faster hulls, not just in straight lines, but hulls that can run wide open while making hard turns. These things grip the water even with outboards turning full throttle tiller all the way to one side. Gone are the days of 25 hp motors on WMAs that don't require them. 40hp and up with many "built" to squeeze every rpm the laws of physics allow. Never mind the fact first-come first-serve no longer applies on some WMAs and you can "join" another hunting party who was first, negating the need to race, folks race. For no other reason young men want to race and the state is complacent.
Now Ark G&F have another problem, hunter safety. This weekend one boat traveling at a high rate of speed hit an unmovable object resulting in it coming to a very fast stop. The boat following was too close and ran over the stuck boat, sinking it. Luckily, the operator was not injured, this time. This is just one of many close calls that happen throughout the season. But for absolute certainty given the speeds, G's, hazards, congestion, competitiveness and tempers clouding judgement there will be fatalities. Folks, Ark G&F has a mess on its hands, one they created by the 4a.m. rule, and a good lawyer with a sympathetic jury in a wrongful death case will have no problem extracting tens of millions of dollars in damages from the state.
Ark needs to clean up this mess, now, and I fear it will be by limiting hunter numbers via draw, and yet another place I enjoyed hunting at my leisure will be off-limits.
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And yelling "kill 'em". At least when there's a camera rolling, pretend to be a sportsman.
I don't know how to control the boat races, but the root cause is not enough public access area. You are likely correct, more restrictions on the way.
SJ
If they did away with the 4am rule nearly all the racing would end. Hole monopolizing would start, but no racing and the risk it brings. Like I mentioned the first-come first-serve rule is breaking down. Some groups barge into an occupied hole and hunt. Ever since my run-in in Ark over a dozen years ago when the warden informed me they did not consider first-come first-serve to be a legitimate practice (it isn't a law in any state I've ever hunted) I figured it would eventually break down and now it is. Why race if you don't have to be first to hunt? I guess it depends on if the first party is willing to use violence to discourage the later party and I'm certain that goes on. With that possibility folks choose to race, I guess.
If they did away with the 4am rule nearly all the racing would end. Hole monopolizing would start, but no racing and the risk it brings. Like I mentioned the first-come first-serve rule is breaking down. Some groups barge into an occupied hole and hunt. Ever since my run-in in Ark over a dozen years ago when the warden informed me they did not consider first-come first-serve to be a legitimate practice (it isn't a law in any state I've ever hunted) I figured it would eventually break down and now it is. Why race if you don't have to be first to hunt? I guess it depends on if the first party is willing to use violence to discourage the later party and I'm certain that goes on. With that possibility folks choose to race, I guess.
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BobThompson
New member
I would think that Arkansas would limit access to a certain number of boats or hunters per day. Either advance reservations or a draw system should help with that mess.
As a previous poster mentioned, I would love to experience really great timber hunting at least once before I’m too old.
As a previous poster mentioned, I would love to experience really great timber hunting at least once before I’m too old.
Not sure what to think about joining another group. Maybe if it's common practice I could do it, but it's hard to trust people you don't know with firearm safety. Plus, the Essexing (family pejorative for water swatting, so named for old-time duck hunters from the town of Essex) and the 'kill 'em" crap take the fun out of it for me.
The racing needs to stop as you say, somebody will get killed for sure. I'm cautious when driving at high speed across large open bodies of water at night, let alone flooded timber with a fleet of other boats. I'm fortunate to get on the water more than 1/2 the days in the year. I'm sure I would be pushing up daisies long ago if I drove like the googan hordes in the video.
Just as a point of reference, some east coast states currently limit party size to five or six. In the old point system days we might hunt with more than a dozen people for broadbill. At ten birds/man, a spot would be locked up all day even though shooting was more or less continuous. For many years there were also 100-150 yard distance requirements between rigs to minimize crowding and for safety. The distance regs seem to have gone quietly into the night, I'm not sure why.
It reminds me of a place here in Iowa called Lake Odessa. In the late 60s I had the chance to hunt this lake and it was just like that. 20' boats with hard blinds and 115hp outboards. The birds came into the timber just like that. A lot of racing and swearing. The lake had staked areas allowing one boat per stake. You can imagine the locals horded the best stakes. Shaking fists and fights finally got the DNRs attention and rules were put in place to have a drawing each morning prior to hunting. I haven't hunted there since the 70s. Not my kind of hunting. With stories of Bayou Meto wma a Petit Jean wma in Arkansas, I made my way to Arkansas in 1984. I never did get to see ducks like in the video. When I arrived in was a major drought in Arkansas and when you're not a native information was very hard to find. Plus the company that hired me placed me in NW Arkansas. Not the duck meca I was hoping for. I did have a lot of fun shooting divers on Beaver Lake as I was like one of 3 duck hunters on the lake and usually beat everyone to one certain cove that was a favorite of Golden Eyes flying through.
Absolutely insane!!. I noticed that there was a lab retrieving birds..no way in H_ll would allow that while these guys are water swatting birds.
MIKE-SID
Active member
I've never seen anything like this! I couldn't imagine that drag race is allowed. To each his own I guess.
I'd imagine a draw for spots would eliminate the drag race and spot hoarders. What do you think?
The hunting pressure in my area of CT is pretty low, but then again so are the numbers of ducks. Generally if I get to the ramp and hour and a half before LST, I'm the first, or one of the first out. Seems like people are looking for a spot 15 minutes or less before LST around here.
I'd imagine a draw for spots would eliminate the drag race and spot hoarders. What do you think?
The hunting pressure in my area of CT is pretty low, but then again so are the numbers of ducks. Generally if I get to the ramp and hour and a half before LST, I'm the first, or one of the first out. Seems like people are looking for a spot 15 minutes or less before LST around here.
@MIKE-SID
Depending on the structure of a draw it probably would eliminate most of the racing. There are other things they could do as well, e.g. hp limits and assigned launch times, come to mind, draws on high activity hunts like the opener(s) and Saturdays. I can't imagine it continuing like this. I'm afraid in the end I'll lose another place to hunt when and how I see fit.
Depending on the structure of a draw it probably would eliminate most of the racing. There are other things they could do as well, e.g. hp limits and assigned launch times, come to mind, draws on high activity hunts like the opener(s) and Saturdays. I can't imagine it continuing like this. I'm afraid in the end I'll lose another place to hunt when and how I see fit.
MIKE-SID
Active member
@Eric Patterson and all,
more and more costal ramps that are town owned in CT are charging to use the ramp. One spot we are playing $32 each day! It's either that or a long boat ride, in this case many miles on the Long Island Sound! If it's not one thing, it's another!
more and more costal ramps that are town owned in CT are charging to use the ramp. One spot we are playing $32 each day! It's either that or a long boat ride, in this case many miles on the Long Island Sound! If it's not one thing, it's another!
jode hillman
Well-known member
Well as soon as I heard they slept on the spot for a few days that's all I needed to see. Isn't there laws against that?
It's a cool video and good editing but it's pretty much all that's wrong with duckhunting today.