Beaver traps; Grrrr...

John Robinson

John Robinson

Well-known member
Yesterday I had a late start as I had to meet a client to discuss his design. Anyway Rich and I launched my boat a little before noon. Neil had an out of state guest hunter and was already set up at a spot we occasionally hunt where a fairly major creek empties into the Flathead. Neil asked me to bring some doughnuts and I obliged. We were standing around telling stories with both boats pulled up against the shore, when all of a sudden my dog Alex, who had disappeared around the corner of the creek started making the most horrendous, continuous blood curdling screams I have ever heard. Afterward we all said that we thought he was being mauled by a wolverine or bear. I'll tell you it was the most chilling thing I had ever heard, and I couldn't get there fast enough, yet I was really afraid of what I was going to see.

At least he wasn't torn limb from limb like it sounded, but he could of had very serious damage to his leg. Luckily, Alex is my biggest, strongest dog with large bones, and after we calmed him down and released him from that trap, he was no worse for wear. I really thought he could have a broken foreleg, he was caught just above the wrist on his right front leg.

Now I'm a conservative, traditional guy, and I staunchly stick up for hunters rights, and as I have always felt a kinship for trappers from a romantic mountain man, fellow outdoorsman sort of way, but these guys have to use some sense on where to trap. I lived four years in interior Alaska and had lots of friends who ran trap lines with their dog sleds in the Alaskan bush. It isn't Alaska, but there are still lots of wild areas a guy could carry on that trapping tradition here in Montana, but right along a popular river where families recreate with kids and dogs isn't one of them. As hunters and trappers both come under fire from anti hunting activist, these guys need to be careful to not alienate people unnecessarily. They have certainly lost my support.

John
 
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my dog Alex, who had disappeared around the corner of the creek
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Now don't take this wrong but the only thing I see wrong is we where not paying attention to Alex, who should not have been allowed to wonder off in a public area. All kinds of bad stuff out there that can hurt our favorite hunting partners!

Craig
 
Sorry about your dog, hope he is OK.

That said, as long the guy who set the trap was doing everything legally, you really dont have any more valid complaint than the old lady who complains about duck hunters shooting "her" ducks on "her" lake. Maybe the trapper should have been a little more careful but you should also have had your dog under control.
To say all trappers have lost your support over this one incident is taking it a little far. The anti's favorite tactic is divide and conquer and they use it to the max with the trapping issue.
 
John,
Glad your dog is OK.

I usually live by the philosophy of if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it but I have to chime in here. I was a trapper as a 13-15 year old running a minimum of 60 and maximum of 110 traps and it would tear me up each time someone's pet was caught in one of my trap even though in my 3 1/2 years I only caught one cat and one dog. It is a fine line of where to trap and where not to trap. I certainly had PRIME spots I abondoned because of new development, increased foot traffic, etc. I wasn't happy about it but I did it but I didn't have to I chose to. The guy whose trap your dog ended up in certainly had no intention of having your dog end up in his trap. It is not fair of you to treat him like he is doing something wrong and for you to no longer support trappers is completely an emotional comment.
Now for the touche......."but there are still lots of wild areas a guy could carry on that trapping tradition here in Montana, but right along a popular river where families recreate with kids and dogs isn't one of them"
Why is not right for him to trap here but OK for 3 guys to discharge 9 rounds of 12 guage ammunition? Let me set a little scenario, a flock of mallards come into the decoys,you work them a dozen times before they commit to the decoys, you and the 2 others open fire not realizing there is a family of 4 across the river, 20 yards up or down river or standing close behind you, what do you think they are going to say. "I was in support of duck hunters but after they opened fire when my family and I were in clear view but they fired anyway, they no longer have my support." John, you see my point here. What if they were shot by you or one of your party? Is it OK because duck hunters belong there but trappers don't?
There are a lot more accidents and people/pets hurt by duck hunters each year than by trappers - That is not an opinion, that is a fact.

John, in my humble opinion you couldn't be more wrong in your statement and frankly it is as asinine as something you would hear from a member of PETA.

Jim Bucko
 
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Good luck finding a spot in the lower 48 that is "wild" and away from other people. One of my brother in laws use to trap a lot and would catch a dog every now and then on private ground. He has always said they would follow him around more often then not wanting to play after he released them. I'm sure it was traumatic but like you said "he wasn't torn limb from limb". Been listing to too much animal rights propaganda if that is what you thought. Trappers do not want to break legs with foot hold traps that is why even dogs are usually caught right above the foot on the wrist.

Beavers are becoming a royal pain in some populated areas, can't trap those beavers in areas far from people. Foot holds are actually some of the safer options.
Yep they need to be careful but there is only so much care that they can use before most places would be off limits. If kids are recreating on this body of water then I'd question hunting it. If you are talking young hunters maybe it should be off limits to hunters so trappers can have it all to themselves. Trappers usually make a little money from it and pay taxes, well at least they are suppose to. It works both ways if you want to close public areas to them. I'm sure some anglers would like hunters to not be on the water.
Some places they have to mark traps but that is just a giant neon sign saying "steal me!"

Sorry the pup got snapped.

Tim
 
Jim

I'm in complete agreement with you too but re: "What if they we shot by you or one of your party?"

I have been hollared at by dimwits across the river, behind, walking by & so forth. On all occasions I was fine with the safe backdrop, in a legal spot & I intend to take this kind of shot everytime. My favorite was on the Concord River in Billerica, MA. I was 100% legal. Across the river was Carlisle, MA town owned land. After my buddy & I shot at some ducks a socker mom type, at least 100 yards away, took up an ungodly screaming session. My only regret is that she didn't burst her vocal cords & we had to leave anyway.

We have a lot of multiple use areas here in RI. I see mountain bikers & strollers in WMAs all the time. There is a remarkably live and let live attitude. Just yesterday (Sunday hunting is legal) my son & a buddy had a nice conversation unloading guns at the car with a young family about to take a walk with their dogs. Everyone was legal. The family members all had the required orange vests.
 
Since you left John, the trapping around towns has increased. Every year dogs are caught along ski trails in conibears. A couple of winters ago there were a few killed because the pet owners didn't know how to open a conibear trap with a leash. These traps are set within 50 yards of ski trails in some very popular rec areas. Easy access for everyone and in off-leash parts of the state forest and parks.

The legal rules have not changed about where you can set a trap, but the recommendation is to not set them in rec areas near town. However, the Barney trappers and kids still set out trap lines in city park lands and peoples dogs find those a few times a year.

I am perfectly fine with trapping on the whole. However, the lazy Barney that makes his sets next to a ski trail should be nut stomped. The only animal he is going to catch is a dog anyway.

In short Alaska's larger cities are getting filled with Jerimiah Johnson wannabes.

I know it can be hard to identify bank beaver or muskrat lodges/dens long some river banks, but a trapper who actually plans on catching something will be making their sets at those locations. Don't hunt where you know there to be beaver lodges/dens. It is really simple.
 
John,

I'm beginning to think you may be accident prone. Sorry to hear your story.

I have no problem with trapping and the suffering associated for the target animal - be it the minor pain associated with having a trap (possibly a cushy rubber lined one) slammed on your leg or by being drowned, etc... However, it is amazing that this day and age someone can legally put something on public property that is capable of doing unintended physical harm to those that encounter it (and yes, I do understand the lengths that trappers go to to minimize non target species). Again, glad the dog is fine and glad that he didn't stick his head into #330.

T
 
I will agree with you that a 330 set on land could do harm to a person (which why most states dont allow conibears on dry land) but I dont know of any legal foothold that will harm a person if they step on it.
 
Tod when you say public property that gets to be a very loose phrase when you get west of the mississippi. Montana is 1/3rd public land. In SD all water that is navigable from a public source is public. That is much of the water other then small streams. Nothing I could prove but I bet that more pets are caught in traps on private ground that they should not be on then on public ground each year.

Tim
 
Tod when you say public property that gets to be a very loose phrase when you get west of the mississippi. Montana is 1/3rd public land. In SD all water that is navigable from a public source is public. That is much of the water other then small streams. Nothing I could prove but I bet that more pets are caught in traps on private ground that they should not be on then on public ground each year.

Tim
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Tim, I understand the distribution of public property in Montana fairly well. Public property is public, be it navigable water, BLM, Forest Service, School land, etc...
 
John,

I'm beginning to think you may be accident prone. Sorry to hear your story.

T
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Notice it's only when I have Rich along for the ride??? I'll have to think about that.

For the rest of you, maybe I did respond emotionally, and I agree we need to fight against the divide and conquer tactic of the antis, but without getting into a heated debate I need to stick up for myself a bit.

It's true my dog was out of sight, I don't know about where you guys hunt, but dogs here hunt out of sight a good portion of the time, chasing cripples into cattails, over logs ect, ect. I've been hunting this river since 1987 and I've never heard of a dog getting caught in a trap before. Now this was very traumatic to me, but I'm picking up from a couple of post that this type of mini-bear trap doesn't really hurt the dog, just scares him. I had taken it as a miracle that his leg wasn't broken, but maybe the trap just "snaps" shut and holds the dog. Tod, were you being sarcastic about rubber lined traps?

Believe me, I am a great believer in having my dog under control, and nobody cares more for their hunting companion than I do, but it's not practical hunting to have the dog close all the time, heck I just sent Yoda on a 200 yard retrieve the other day.

Now trapping is quite popular in Montana, and I believe that most trapper hunt, and most hunters are in favor of preserving that trapping tradition. I hadn't really considered the fact that bird hunting and trapping were incompatible in the same area, it just never came up. And you're right, the trapper had just as much legal right to that land as I did, I just had never seen or heard of traps set right where we hunt. It was just very hard to hear my dog screaming in either pain or just fear like that.

Sorry for the ramble, it just shook me up a bit, now I have more controversial stuff to think about.

John
 
Tod when you say public property that gets to be a very loose phrase when you get west of the mississippi. Montana is 1/3rd public land. In SD all water that is navigable from a public source is public. That is much of the water other then small streams. Nothing I could prove but I bet that more pets are caught in traps on private ground that they should not be on then on public ground each year.

Tim
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Tim, I understand the distribution of public property in Montana fairly well. Public property is public, be it navigable water, BLM, Forest Service, School land, etc...
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Montana has a wonderful (from the sportsman standpoint) public stream access law. Any navigable, even by wading, piece of water is open to the public for fishing or hunting. Standard regulations about not discharging firearms within a certain distance of a building apply, but it allow us to drive our boats up the river, then on to a creek or slough. As long as it's all connected it's legal. Plus it's the high water mark which means we have lots a dry land to hunt pheasants in the cattails when the water drops in the fall and winter.

John
 
that this type of mini-bear trap
John
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Mini bear trap? how mini? and what was it anchored too?

Modern guys don't often use this style for beaver, but do use them for muskrat.

Beaver trapper wants the beaver to drown so it needs to be set so that the beaver swims into deeper water or it holds them in deeper water.

Rat trappers just need some knee deep stuff to drown the rats and it sounds like if your dog stepped on it it was not too deep.
 
John

In regards to the actual trap that your dog got his foot/paw into; Foot hold traps are just what the name implies, in that they are designed to snap closed onto the paw of the animal. The last thing a trapper wants is for the leg bone to break. The trap is not designed to inflict pain or injury. It is designed to securely hold the animal for several hours until the trapper returns. I have actually returned to my traps and found animals sleeping right up to my final approach.

Undoubtedly your dog was howling, however the pain was mostly from the initial shock when the trap snapped shut. Once the initial shock wears off there is not a lot of pain involved. I speak from personal experience on this and would best describe it as uncomfortable rather than painful. I'm sure at the time this would have been a minor distinction.

As to the rubber cushioned traps, yes they are available and used successfully to trap animals for the fur market.

It is unfortunate that your dog got caught and I'm sure you both learned from this experience. I know my dog learned the hard way about barb wire fences. Now he slows down when he encounters one.
 
Ray,
I suspect it was a double long spring, maybe as big as a #4. A large piece of steel. I know guys whole love the double long springs because they are more stable and easier to get leveled. It was most likely on a drowning slider, very good he was close to help out before the pup struggled much and headed down the wire into the deep water.

John,
I'm very happy it all worked out well in the end. My Dad is a dedicated trapper and houndsman, many trappers are, and goes to great lengths to avoid accidental catches. But you were where they are going to happen. Your dog was certainly somewhere that he was not expected to be, not that he was wrong being there, just not expected. Not many people or dogs play in the water this time of year. Trappers and duck hunters certainly get to take advantage of otherwise unused resources.

Best wishes and stay out of trouble!

Gene
 
John,
I can't speak for Todd but I think he was referring to the State Requirement in CT that all leg hold traps be rubber lined for legal use within the state.


I ran a line for muskrats in High School with a friend who was taught by his dad. We learned a lot and he made a few bucks for the effort. Hard work and not glamorous but I have come to staunchly defend the last few trappers in New England. My old home state of Ma. has made it near impossible for all but a few to carry on and when a good pest breeding season gets under way its Pay by the Animal for a land owner to remediate the issue, or break the law.

I am sure your dog was not having any fun and it hurt like heck, but if a beaver is in the trap he aint having any either.

Trapping is a traditional way to take furberers and it is one of the most efficient tools in the wildlife managers kit for helping with predator management.

Sorry your dog got caught up in one, but take a bit of time and reconsider the effect of not trapping before signing the local anti trapping campaign going around a statehouse near you.

Trapping is the key target in the fight against hunting because so few sportsmen are willing to defend it.
 
I have always worried about my dog getting caught in a trap on the River.... The Mississippi is covered with them.
 
Phil

You do have a legitimate concern however most of the traps out there pose no actual threat to your dog.

The vast majority of the traps will be set for muskrats using either 110 connibear or #1 foot hold. In most cases, this size trap is too small to get a grip on your dog if he happens to set one off.

The next largest group of traps will be set for raccoons. These will be the 220 connibear and the #1 1/2 or #2 foot hold. The 2's and 2 1/2's work well for fox so yes, they will grip and hold your dogs paw as well. The 220 is still a little small for a dog the size of a Lab or Chessie. Oh ya, it will give him a pretty good smack on the nose and chin but should not do any lasting damage.

Your real concern will be with the beaver sets. Beaver traps will be 330 size connibears and #2 1/2 or #3 foothold. With the footholds it is not so much the size of the traps that matters but how it is set. A good foothold set for beaver will involve a slider lock on a drowning wire. The slider will allow an animal to move (along with the trap) in the direction of deeper water but will not allow movement back. This usually results in the animal drowning in short order. This type of set will be along the bank edges particularity where you see a trail entering the water. The 330's will be in the water and will be by far the biggest hazard for you dog should he stick his head in one. To be 100% honest, you probably would not be able to help him in time if he set off a 330 with his head.

Like you said, the Mississippi River is very popular with the trappers. I myself, would avoid hunting in any specific area which showed a high concentration of beaver activity.
 
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