Brain trust - Bridge steel support load question.... NDR!!!

tod osier

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OK, I want to make a little bridge over the creek to access the other side to be able to mow my food plot at home with the garden tractor. I've read up on bridges, the liability and the environmental laws and I'd (still) like to build a small movable (not anchored) bridge that can span the creek, which is neither deep nor wide.

I have two pieces of steel that will work in at least one way: 2 - 14' pieces of "C" channel - the channel is 8" on the long side, the ears are 2" and the minimum thickness is 1/4", so a stout piece. I would build a 2x6 wood deck on top. Originally, I was thinking to put the long (8") side on the vertical, which would be plenty strong (but would have the downside of being tougher to deal with : 1) harder to build, 2) higher to get up on and 3) taller side profile in the rare case the creek comes up out of its banks). I think they may be strong enough to span the creek with the long side on the horizontal (and the ears down), which would be really nice for a lot of reasons (1, 2, 3 above).

Question, is there a standard of deflection that I can measure to evaluate what sort of load will give a safety margin for failure? I can set them across supports and apply a force similar to the tractor and measure deflection easily (I've done it by having Jen and I jump on them in the center, but I'd like to have something more to go on). I think for designing wood floor joists in a house they design for less than 1/360 deflection, but I don't care if the steel bows or jiggles, I just don't want it to fail (failure would not be too dangerous, just suck). I also don’t need to use the whole 14’ and can shrink it down some if needed. Suggestions??????
 
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Todd,

"C" channel in intended to be used with the long leg in the vertical. Frankly with you and your lawntractors combined weight won't see any measurable deflection in 14' span unless we're talking a backhole. Where your deflection would be a concern would be the cross span of your 2x6 decking. What type of lawn tractor are you using?

http://www.engineeringcalculator.net/beam_calculator.html

P.S. I am note a degreed engineer with a background in stress analyst.
 
If you make a diapragm connecting the two pieces of steel in the middle at maybe two locations it will help reduce deflection. You'll need to have the 8" leg verticle to do so, but it will be much stronger when both pieces are connected below the deck surface and can work together. Two small pieces of angle, bolted on each side of a 2x8 and then bolted through the 2x8 should be enough to transfer the load evenly across the structure. It would be stronger to weld X shapes diapragms but I think for that application it would be over kill. Getting the two beams connected so that they can work together is the main thing. Its the way the bridges you drive over in your truck are made....basically. I work for the same precaster that built the Chesapeake Bay Bridge so Ive seen a few drawings of bridges. haha Hope this helps.
 
Todd,

"C" channel in intended to be used with the long leg in the vertical. Frankly with you and your lawntractors combined weight won't see any measurable deflection in 14' span unless we're talking a backhole. Where your deflection would be a concern would be the cross span of your 2x6 decking. What type of lawn tractor are you using?

http://www.engineeringcalculator.net/beam_calculator.html

P.S. I am note a degreed engineer with a background in stress analyst.


Thanks Ed, yes, I know it is meant to go in the vertical. I've played with just enough steel (building docks and boat lifts, etc...) that I'm sure that in the correct orientation that it would hold my truck as a bridge support.

Lawn tractor is a JD X500, which with the mower deck and I is about 1000#. As you said I have no question it would be fine with the "C" the right way, I'm just trying to find out if there is a rule of thumb to figgure out if I can half ass it the wrong way. There may be no standard or expansion of a current standard that someone can give me. I can drive the tractor up on the steel positioned in the wrong way, up on blocks in the lawn and have the whole family bounce on it 6" above the lawn as a test, but I'd rather not ruin it, since as you said it would be fine if I put the "C" in the right way.

Make sense?
 
If you make a diapragm connecting the two pieces of steel in the middle at maybe two locations it will help reduce deflection. You'll need to have the 8" leg verticle to do so, but it will be much stronger when both pieces are connected below the deck surface and can work together. Two small pieces of angle, bolted on each side of a 2x8 and then bolted through the 2x8 should be enough to transfer the load evenly across the structure. It would be stronger to weld X shapes diapragms but I think for that application it would be over kill. Getting the two beams connected so that they can work together is the main thing. Its the way the bridges you drive over in your truck are made....basically. I work for the same precaster that built the Chesapeake Bay Bridge so Ive seen a few drawings of bridges. haha Hope this helps.


On my way to a meeting, will respond after...
 
Tod,

I don't have the calculator you need but don't treat it like channel when figureing your load. In the laid down orientation, only the ears will be providing any substantial strength. Figure your load against 4 individual bars 1/4 x 2 x length of span. The 1/4 x 2 is equivalent to the ears of your channel.
 
Can't help you on your question but maybe a suggestion. Why not find an old dock that someone wants to get rig of and use this for your bridge? Not wide enough by chance for the tractor?

Mark W
 
Yep...I understand. The link I sent you won't help you much since you can't reorient the channel in the equation. I'm assuming your talking about bolting the decking across the long leg of the channel so the math for calculating the load will of course be different if you are wanting to place the channel on the web edges. Even though the Machinery Handbook has calulations for strength of material of a "C" channel oriented so it laying on long leg I'm afraid I wouldn't be comfortable offering any anwers since I'm not involved with FEA or Strength analyst. Hopefully someone with that expertise will offer a solution.
 
I would acquire 2 peices of I beam at the length and weld your c channel on top and use the channel web as a runway should be solid at that point
 
OK team, I have it and it seems like there isn't a good answer. Tons of good suggestions and I think I have them all understood on a basic level. Thanks for taking the time.

The thing I didn't want to do is to do the actual calculations for the channel (Dave thanks for breaking it down that way, that makes good sense). The channels are dug out of a field and rusted to shit with some holes drilled/burnt in them (I have a pretty good understanding of how strong they are since I grew up with the same material used in a number of different ways, we have a family stockpile of it). I have no question that if installed with the 8" height they would be plenty strong X10 or X100.

I'd like to stick with a just slap it across the creek bridge and not anchor it so it isn't a perminant bridge (that may or may not matter, but I'm fine with it). Yash, I also have access to some monster I beams that would be enough to drive loaded dump truck across, but I don't want to deal with them, I'd liek to keep this light so that in a monster flood, I can move back into place (I'd like it to be such that debris does not catch on it and dam the creek) or drag it and make it not a bridge if needed.

All in all, the creek is small enough that I could almost drive the tractor through it, I'd be okay in spots without the mower deck, so I'm not worried about what happens if the bridge fails (no way it will if built in with the 8" section vertical).
 
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What about an old flat deck trailer? Prospectors do that up here so they can skip the permit process for building a bridge.

Mike
 
What about an old flat deck trailer? Prospectors do that up here so they can skip the permit process for building a bridge.

Mike


Tod, Mike hit on something my employer did at his hunting property. He found a mobile home that was about to be destroyed and used the frame to make a bridge. Some small trees were cut and laid across the frame making a dandy little bridge.
 
Todd:

The most creative temporary bridges I have seen have been used by logging operations, who frequently need to cross multiple small streams and want to do with at minimal expense and without the need for the permits required for a permanent crossing. They have come up with all kinds of creative temporary bridges that can be reused at multiple sites.

If you know a forester with experience in Maine or another state with lots of industrial timberland I bet he or she can put you onto some creative ideas.
 
Is this c channel because you speak of ears at the end, almost sounds like shelving steel for pallet racks? If it is c channel what is the actual area you are crossing assuming some amount of steel is going onto ground on each side. One thing I would do imams I will try to paint a picture I would go out 1/3 distance from end and bring a leg back at a 45 deg angle back toward the banking on both ends so the weight from the top would deflect down and back towards the bank edge sort of like in post and beam houses beams come down at a 45 back into the carrying beam. Doing this on both ends will reduce flexing. Personally I would do this with I beams which are stronger. I would also bolt angle iron across bottom every two feet, as the top flexes down the bottom will twisting or out with weight. You need to build that really rugged for 1000 pounds IMO
 
On second thought, this a website devoted to BOATS.

You should abandon the bridge idea, and construct a barge to cross the creek, with drive-on/drive-off docking on both sides.
 
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On second thought, this a website devoted to BOATS.

You should abandon the bridge idea, and construct a barge to cross the creek, with drive-on/drive-off docking on both sides.


I pretty sure Tod wants it to be a bridge. That way it can sure a dual purpose. (A) it gets him to the other side of the creek (B) it provides a place for the internet trolls to reside.
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[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]
On second thought, this a website devoted to BOATS.

You should abandon the bridge idea, and construct a barge to cross the creek, with drive-on/drive-off docking on both sides.


I pretty sure Tod wants it to be a bridge. That way it can sure a dual purpose. (A) it gets him to the other side of the creek (B) it provides a place for the internet trolls to reside.
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As much as I like trolls, I would like the mini bridge to be able to be moved, thus removing the trolls habitat.
 
What about an old flat deck trailer? Prospectors do that up here so they can skip the permit process for building a bridge.

Mike


Tod, Mike hit on something my employer did at his hunting property. He found a mobile home that was about to be destroyed and used the frame to make a bridge. Some small trees were cut and laid across the frame making a dandy little bridge.


I've seen those, driven across those trailer frame bridges. The deck of the bridge will be just at 4' wide and the span I have is 10' or a little longer (Steel I have is 14'). The steel I have is plenty stout if used with the 8" side vertical.
 
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