Chukar hunting trip.

[Brandon Yuchasz]

I had a really neat experience this winter when I was out in Utah for work. My wife and I played hooky one afternoon and went up into the mountains and then down to the great salt lake. Since it was our only free day we pushed it right until the end and at dusk we were climbing up in elevation to overlook the lake. We flushed a small covey of Chukars and then listened to them call each other back together. We were able to get close enough to watch a few from a distance and on our walk back out we flushed a few other coveys.

While watching the birds I started thinking about how much I would like to hunt that terrain especially with my older dog Bella before she is to old for a trip like this. She has a certain finesse in the field and I think she might be able to figure these birds out. It certainly would be fun to watch her try and spend time climbing up and down with her.

So I am reaching out to the group here for idea's on area's to look at for a Chukar trip. I have no idea if Utah is a reasonable place to target them. The area I was in was closed to hunting and I do realize that the birds will act quite a bit different in area's they are hunted. I am open to any area or state as long as its classic Chukar habitat. This past winter was my first time west of the Rocky Mountains so where ever I go its going to be an adventure for me. The earliest I see myself taking a trip like this would be in December and it could be as late and January. To be honest right now its just the dream phase I already am committed to more hunting trips this fall than anyone should but they are spread through September, October and a Ohio family trip at Thanksgiving. My wife said no originally when I mentioned the idea but when I brought it up again the other day she asked If I would drive out there so apparently she knows me well enough when I get a crazy idea.

So oh great Duckboat collective. If you were taking a trip for Chuckar's that late in the year having never hunted them where would you go? How long would you go for? What am I not thinking of?

If I am really going to late in the winter to make this work I could try and steal time from duck season at home in November and head out. That would not be ideal however.

I may also have to push this another year to make it work but the amount of trips wont be any less next year and Bella will be one year older. The time is coming where hunting around home will be all she does. I dread that day but not as much as the day she doesn't do any.


PMs are certainly welcome as well if you don't want to post information publicly. I promise if I do this trip I will take lots of pictures and share them when I return but will keep any location information off the public form if it was shared privately.

 

[Steve Sutton]

Not sure I can help you much on "where" for Chukars Brandon as I'm leaving the West but I can point you to "general" areas....and give you some "basics"...




Of all the Upland birds Chukars are the hardest for flushing dogs to hunt...where they are hunted regularly Chukars are, on average, going to flush further from the gun than any other bird, (with the possible exception of Sharptails and Prairie Chickens and the terrain makes them tougher), which makes it tougher to get good shots on them.....a dog working at thirty yards from the gun and birds flushing 30 yards from the dogs makes for long days and poor results.....my recommendation when using flushing dogs is GO EARLY when they'll still hold a little tighter.....




Trip duration....I've never seen a duck, or Grouse, conditioned dog last more than three days Chukar hunting.....its not that the dogs are necessarily out of shape its just that they aren't in shape for the conditions they'll be hunting in.....not much steep volcanic scree in the upper mid-west to train and condition in so don't be thinking of week to ten day trips and expect the dog to hold up....or you for that matter.....MOST Chukar hunting is tough with lots of altitude gains and rough ankle twisting terrain.....plan accordingly.....




Easy Chukar hunting locations are few and far between and usually are centered around rivers where you run the river and catch them down on the water....those are the Chukars that make people think they are easy...the normal ones are those same birds that lead you up a thousand foot altitude gain before flushing down hill and losing that thousand feet that took you a couple of hours to gan in seconds....stout boots and lots of water for the dog, (its not uncommon to carry a half a gallon of water on even a short hunt in early season and even then you might be returning early to the truck because you're out)......




If you're lucky you might find some birds where you can drive to the top and work down but you still have to regain that lost altitude so its never as easy as it might seem......






Chukar Guides are few and far between and those guys will be equipped with kennels full of big running dogs with locator collars.....they cover an amazing amount of ground and produce birds if for no other reason than because they are eating up the miles....a lab in the same terrain is going to cover a 10th of the cover and you'll have to stay within shooting range of the dog at all times so Guides aren't going to be running Labs and are going to have little interest in you running your dog with theirs so you're pretty much on your own or looking for someone that uses a flushing dog and that will take you as a guest.....going blind into the deserts of Wa., Oregon, Idaho or Nev. is a really low percentage hunt but at the least I'd recommend you have some "insider" information before you do it.....I'll be gone from Wa. by this season so can't take you but I could give you directions to where you could find birds ...... can't help you in the other States.......




Its a neat thing to do with a Lab though the success rates are low unless you have the right spots which isn't likely if your purely freelancing.....happy to help if I can......




Steve

 

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Steve,
Thanks for taking the time to reply in detail like that. Its helpful to try and focus my search and my expectations.

I will be able to bring two dogs and rotate them to let them rest some but I still don't expect that they will be able to last a full week. The older dog Bella is the one I really want to spend time with hunting. If you want to shoot grouse put her on the ground and follow her be patent when she slows down and she will put them up in gun range. It will be interesting to see how she handles the open ground of the west. The younger dog I have Storm is a great duck dog. Love him for it but he is not a "thinking" dog and any grouse he puts up is by sheer accident as he plows through the woods. I still hold out a little hope that the switch will go off for him since he is young but Its not a lot of hope anymore. I am going to miss Bella terribly in the woods when she is gone and the idea of following Storm around doesn't really excite me. Hopefully who ever is the young pup at that point will be another "thinker".

Ill take your advice and try to get into better shape myself. I'm in good shape for my age and work outdoors but I am sure I could be in better.

Its interesting to me that you mentioned the birds getting so wild when hunted and early season being easier. Its hard to believe that there is any pressure to speak of on those birds is such large landscapes. Is it a big pastime in the west to chase Chukars? I may have to adjust my expectations or finding unpressured birds.

I should say that finding and chasing birds is my excuse for such a trip but I am really just looking forward to spending time in a different landscape.

I am really just hoping to find a few towns to start looking into where there are Chukar populations near by.

 

[Dani]

Brandon-

When I took Drake out west this past October, we hunted ten days straight. He was POOOOOOOPED come the 9th day, though willing to go even at the end. We hunted flat land (quail and pheasants), we hunted mountains and canyons(pheasants and grouse depending on which canyons we were going up, huns and quail too), we hunted water (ducks), we hunted snowy areas (grouse). We thought about chasing chukar but the end of the trip was not the time for us to do it. We were worn out, the dog was worn out and honestly his feet wouldn't have held up as they were already sore and torn up. FL landscapes are nothing like the rocky terrain that Drake and I were scrambling up and down.

He was a trooper though. Always willing to go. We didn't go the beginning of the trip for chukar because this was Drake's first trip for upland birds and I wanted him on as many upland birds as possible, as quick as possible, so that we could begin turning on his upland light. He held up pretty well, especially considering he's a flat lander and had never seen anything taller than a bridge, but his feet were what we needed to watch out for, especially on those slopes (and they weren't even chukar slopes).

This area is a place I've been told used to be good chukar hunting, perhaps it still is, though the fishermen we talked with say they haven't heard chukar calling like they used to. When we were down there at the end of the trip, I was looking up the slopes that have a vertical gain of 1800 feet or so from bottom to top and I thought GEEEEEEZ I'll never keep up with any birds as I go up these slopes. Heck I'd have to be on a sled going down to have any hopes of catching up to them if they took me all the way up and then flushed downhill like so many chukar hunters say the birds have a tendency to do.

This area was a place that we were chasing pheasant and quail in. It is FLAT compared to those slopes above.

Wish I could help you on where to go. I have never hunted them though but someday would like to. Definitely look forward to your post when you do go. But I second, third and fourth the get in shape if you wanna chase chukars.....like find a stair master and have it become your new best friend. At least that's what this flat lander would have to do to have a chance in hell of keeping up with a flusher on those slopes.

I bet if you got into A LOT of birds, Storm would have his light bulb go off. Drake was like that (and he was 7 last year when we went to WA). Just charging through the woods and grasses, having a great time. The light was coming on towards the end of the trip after getting into good numbers of birds and learning that there is a point to us being out there and that he finds the birds, we shoot them and THEN he has a bird in his mouth and if he's really good, he can repeat it with more birds. He really started learning with pheasants once we found some of the best canyons. Hopefully this year the light will come on totally once we have our september trip out west.

Good luck and hope you figger out where to go. I'm sure it'll be a gorgeous place and will definitely be a change in scenery for you.

Dani

 

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Thanks Dani,

Perhaps I need to consider some more diverse hunting opportunists out west. Chase some different species in addition to Chukars. I could spend a couple days breaking my heart on Chukars climbing and climbing and after they have completely broken my spirit I could chase something else that only slightly crushes any remaining spirit I have.

I want to dismiss your hope for Storm because he lives in such a wonderful place for upland. But you are right. Its hard to just take him out alone and let him figure it out when I have Bella to take. So when I really want to enjoy the day he stays home or goes duck hunting in the morning and Bella and grouse in the afternoon. When I do take him its often with Bella so he can charge around enjoying the day and we still shoot some birds. Not as many because he flushes wild but some over Bella. Storm still scoops a few of these up and brings them back. So he gets the reward without the work! I make it sound like I don't like him which is not true. He is such a care free spirit ( read dumb). Its impossible not to like him. You are right though lots of birds make good dogs. When Bella was three she flushed 20 grouse inside 20 yards in just over an hour of walking. Part of that was her but a lot of that was lots of birds were around. It was an amazing day. Its hard for a dog not to learn something with all those opportunities. I have not seen days like that since but she still flushes around 5 a hour so we have birds for her to chase. There is always a magic week her when its the right temps the leaves are blazing and the sun is out. I drop everything that week and hunt as much as I can.


I am concerned about the dogs feet. Did you run boots on the dogs? The only conditioning I can do for them would be walking on stone or concrete. That does not seem like enough.

The most elevation I climb here is 400 feet and most of the time its closer to 300 feet. Yesterday I worked at a tower site that is bushwacking up 400 feet with a 60 pound pack of gear. The week before it was the same gear up the face of a ski jump. 300 feet in elevation. I know I will need to do something because I have to rest on these climbs as it is. If I lived closer to either site I could just climb them every morning before work. What we consider hills up here people out west would call bumps in the road.

 

[Dani]

I didn't put boots on Drake, or did anything other than walk him where we always go as far as conditioning his feets. And Steve never put boots on Mike when I hunted with them for upland. I don't know how to condition a dogs feet for that kind of terrain....maybe other folk do. It wasn't so much the pads as the sides of his feet that were taking the beating. The pads were "ok" overall, but the sides of his feet were pretty raw in places. Our night time ritual was for him to get checked over very thoroughly for seeds, cockleburrs, barbed wire cuts (which shockingly he didn't get many at all, maybe one) and see how his feet were doing. Making sure there were no cockleburrs or sticktites or anything else along those lines between his toes. imagine those things rubbing you raw between your toes. So he just got checked out very thoroughly every night. Luckily he held up pretty good and was only worn raw in places. No real major cuts or bleeding.

Definitely not trying to discourage you from going.....I think it'll be a great trip. But a trip for several species might not be a bad idea (so you can "rest" and still hunt) and there may be a few places where you could chase chukar and grouse in the same general area and not have to drive too far for either.

Sounds like a nice place to live for upland hunting like you've got. Hopefully this year I'll get to take Drake out to LA for some woodcock "lessons". Then perhaps we'll have a better chance of finding the one or two that migrate down here and chill out working on their tans in FL. [font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][/font]
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[Cody Williams]

Brandon-we have plenty of Chukar here, but the best hunting is usually in some of the roughest, hardest, most remote areas of the state-which makes them all the more fun to hunt of course! I got seriously into chasing chukar a few years ago and it wasn't uncommon to climb and descend 5,000-6,000ft a day while trying to get uphill of the little buggers. You need some seriously well conditioned legs and lungs to do well, and some big-ranging pointing dogs are a definite plus too. If you are interested in more specific info PM me. Later in the year is usually better (our season usually runs to the end of February) as having a bit of snow can make the birds easier to locate. I have also heard some great things about eastern Oregon for chukar too, that might be worth looking into!

 

[Steve Sutton]

Brandon....how old old is Bella?....if you gave an age I missed it ... I only ask because age will play a big part in the endurance....and as much as I recommend "condition" for the human its even more important for the dog because for every mile you log she'll log three or four, (and more would be better and is why the pointy dog people have more success than flushers on Chukars), which means if she's overwt or not in excellent shape you'll run out of dog really fast...older dogs you have to be really careful with...if you come early there's a heat issue and if you come late there's a cold issue....I know you live where its cold but its a different cold when your up in the wide open and the winds blowing and you overheat and then get chilled when you stop to rest....hydration is critical and can be tough when its cold because the dogs don't seem to realize they're as thirsty......condition/wt will have an enormous impact on how long your dogs feet will last....


Dani's dog Drake came to Wa. last fall in excellent condition and at under what people consider "right" for a dog his size.....stand above him and he has an hourglass shape and you can see a hint of ribs......if you can't see that then Bella is OVERWT. for Chukar hunting....doesn't mean you can't hunt them with her just that she's not going to last as long physically and structurally.....my first dog Thud ws a BIG Lab...over a hundred without being fat.....because of his wt. his feet took a pounding and he was a three day Chukar dog at best.....Buddy was lighter and lasted longer...Mike was lighter still and in condition I could hunt him a week if I didn't overdo it with full days everyday......even so his feet would look like THIS....

by the end of the first day....its not the bottom of the pads that are the problem its the sides of the pads and the ankles and between the toes.....Mike's feet would be looking like this and he'd be so pathetic laying on his dog bed with his feet in the air and so crippled up looking when he had to go out to pee......take out a gun and you'd think he was a puppy on cotton balls......Drake's the same way....I've seen other dogs refuse to get up when they're feet looked like this and this isn't really all that bad, (and I don't blame em heck if those were my feet you'd have to airlift me to the toilet).....you can't condition "sides" of feet unless you're hunting in that scab rock country.....you can toughen the pads, (and you definitely should), by roading them, but the wear on their feet like in the picture is going to happen and the question will be "how bad" and how much "hunt" do you have in your dog.......so condition, condition, condition and hydration, hydration, hydration.....for you and the dogs.....


I'm glad Dani posted the picture of her and Drake down on the River, (that's the Grand Ronde in Se Washington, Idaho and Oregon are a stones throw away if you could throw a stone up over the canyon rims)...as pretty a place as you could ever hope to hunt and it has lots of Chukars...the picture illustrates both how easy Chukars could be and how hard they are....the easy part is when you catch them down on those little rolly hills going to water.....if you can cut them off its a Quail shoot....if you can't.....look up...to the top...cause you won't catch them till they top out....and then they'll flush and head downhill...you'll get one or two shots.....off balance and blowing like a winded race horse....and that will be it for that covey.......that's why the pointy dog guys excel on Chukars...they work a slope til they find birds and then they parallel the slope at the same altitude letting the dogs do the vertical movement to find the birds.....when they point then they climb....still tough but way easier than a flushing dog hunter having to stay in gun range of a dog that may gain and lose MANY thousand feet over a days time with you trying to stay in shooting range of them......


This sounds discouraging...its not meant to be...just meant to point out that if you could have picked a tougher upland bird for a flushing dog you would have to seek out a Himalayan SnowCock.........there are places where you'll do well on them...I could give you spots in Washington where with effort you'd find birds....Idaho and Oregon both are good within a 50 mile radius of the place Dani is standing, Asotin Washington being the closet town to that spot....Clarkston Idaho on the opposite side of the Snake.......


Many other places as well...take Cody up on his "private e-mail".....and any other sources you can come up with.....look for places where you can drive to the top not walk to the top.....Cody has a point on "late".....put some snow on the ground and a couple of things happen.....if its deep it pushes the birds to lower altitudes.....makes the scree slopes extra snotty too.....lower does not necessarily mean easier.....if its not too deep and the weather is "fair" then you'll get exposed south facing slopes.....the cheat grass will green up....find those and that's where the Chukars will be because green cheat grass in the winter to them is drugs to a crack whore.....


One last thing.....if you're in Chukar Country you'll also find Huns....and likely at some point in the day you'll be in Quail habitat....so you don't have to spend all your time climbing......


Wish I was still going to be here and I'd be happy to wear down some boot leather, and dog pads, with you......maybe if you put it off a year we can arrange something since I plan on being back here during the upland season annually....




Steve

 

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Steve,
You are not coming off as negative at all. Just realistic. Bella is a light weight 58lb and in good shape. I have always kept her at the correct weight to many health problems with over weight dogs. You can always see the edge of ribs on my dogs. She is an eight years old Chesapeake. She hunts a lot in a season. A week in Manitoba, and then a week in North Dakota followed shortly after by another week in North Dakota so she has fairly good stamina. Still I suspect this will be quite a bit for her especially after a month or two of just local hunting in between north Dakota and the trip.

Let me ask have you ever tried boots on your dog? I assume they don't get good traction with them and they probably come off anyway.

 

[Steve Sutton]

She's a CHIHUAPeake.....show me a picture...don't think I've ever seen a Chessie that small.....bet she's a looker.......my opinion is that all that work before the trip is the best thing you could do for both of you.....the better shape she's in the less wear and tear on her when you hit the steep parts......


My problem with boots is that they cause as many problems as they solve....I use them when there are serious issues with what we call "sandspurs" in Florida and that they call "catsheads" out here.....nasty bastards that will flat hobble a dog....and work you over pulling them as well....even then it takes a heavy boot to turn their thorns......cactus and sand spurs I try to avoid...RELIGIOUSLY....but I carry boots "just in case"...


One of the biggest problems with boots is that since a dog sweats through their feet outing boots on them traps the moisture and that softens the pads which makes them more susceptible to damage when you run them without them...keeping them attached is a challenge as well and takes some experience....I use vet wrap on the leg from the foot to well up the leg...leaving the dew claw pad, (and this is especially true if the dog hasn't been declawed), unwrap...then the boot is taped to the vet wrap with duct tape.....use PINK she'll be fashionable and the talk of the Chukar slopes.......again be especially careful of the dew claw pads as they cause problems if not wrapped correctly......another problem with boots is that while they keep stuff out they also keep things in....get a rock in a boot, or dirt, and before you know it you've got a lame dog...and in snow they're a sure fire way to get ice balls between the toes which will cripple a dog quickly....changing out boots on the slopes is a real pain in the ass.....I've used several kinds of boots over the years....if I have to use them than I prefer a sleeve cut from a bike inner tube left open on the foot end.....provides protection to the bottom of the foot but lets moisture escape and rocks and dirt don't get trapped inside....if memory serve Todd Osier has had success with boots on Pete and would be a good reference for their use....or lack thereof.....


Steve

 

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Thanks for the info on the boots. I don't have many pictures of her standing up. Most she is sitting down but I found this one from a season or two ago. That Bill took her way out to sea diving before she got it. I was quite proud of her that day.

My male Chessie Storm is three now and only 64lbs. Stand a few inches taller then Bella with more of the blocky head.

 

[Steve Sutton]

I always like seeing pictures where the duck is held like that....tells me right away the dog beat the cripple....not something they can all do...Dani has a picture of Drake holding a Bluebill that could be its twin..except for the Flamingo decoy in Dani's picture.....she holds here ears like Mike did....
I know you said you were "busy" this fall and had lots planned and you might have to put the Western Trip off a year....my suggestion would be that at eight you don't want to wait.....been there with dog at that age....she's right at that point where they are still strong and up for an adventure......from this season forward things become "iffy" as far as their being able to handle long days in the field...and especially multiple days......that's a downer for sure but realistic......if it was me and I wanted to do I'd re-arrange, or cancel if I could, some of what I had planned to do something that neither of you had ever done before and might never get to do again......
I'll be in the West from Sept through Oct. in several States....Chukar opens early October...can't male any commitments till after we know what the Sage Grouse Season will be this year, if there is one, but if you can deal with "quick spur of the moment" trips we might be able to make something happen....


Steve

 

[Worth Mathewson]

Bradon, I hope I can help with your interest in chukars. When Marge and I were in our 30's and 40's we almost lived in eastern Oregon hunting chukars. We had a VW camper van, and had it in some places I now find hard to believe when thinking back. We quit chukar hunting several years ago. Just weren't up for it anymore. Also some of our favorite spots became popular. A couple of those were near those wonderful hot springs that are scattered around in Oregon's high desert. Let me assure you that after a day climbing for chukars, those hot springs were a blessing!
We always used Labs. They worked "ok", but wore out quickly in hot weather, and developed foot problems after just a day in the rim rock. They would also get on the trail of a running covey and bust them out of range. That aside, we always had some very good days. Having said that, the years that we were serious chukar hunters had a very good population of birds. This was especially true in 1979. I don't think we will ever see that number of chukars again. There was no need to chase singles. Just find a new covey. The numbers were much more than truly amazing.
I know several guys who still are hard after them. But the reports I get are grim in terms of numbers in eastern Oregon for the past couple of years. This was especially true in 2013. One fellow I know hunted for four days in a famous region, and only flushed one small covey. (2013) But the numbers can bounce back, so perhaps this coming season will be better?
The only person I know who guides for chukars is Bill Gibson in Nevada. You might want to check with him. He lives part of the year in Nevada, the other in Oregon. His Nevada phone number is: 775 397 4870. Oregon: 541 8266734. Hope you are able to put together a trip. Those chukars are a true gift to wing shooters. Best, Worth Mathewson

 

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Worth,
Thank you for the reply. This idea certainly is sounding more and more exciting. Its also sounding more and more difficult. Of course those two things can go together for a hunter.

Steve,
Spur of the moment hunting trips are perfectly fine by me. The only thing that might get in the way in the fall is if I am already on a hunting trip! Well that and family obligations. I have children still in school and a wife who is understanding but realistic. Right now I am thinking the best choice if I want to make this happen would be to do it for a week before my second ND trip. I would go out west for a week and then meet up with the guys in ND for a week on my way back home. I think the other option would be an early December trip but it sounds like that would be more difficult and I suspect I would not enjoy the weather nearly as much.

 

[Brad Bortner]

Brandon, you've gotten some great responses and all of what they've said is true in my experience. But they all left out one important tip... Learn to mount, swing and shoot your shotgun with one hand. You'll be holding on to the rock with the other hand.