damascus barrels

Thanks Bill.Interesting info.DO you have/shoot and Damascas doubles ,sleeved/or not,for waterfowl/upland??
 
I have 2 damascus guns right now, 1886's smith and 1890 parker, both well used hammerless 10 bores that came off the Illinois river. The bores are ok, some light roughness, so they are fine to shoot with out sleeves and I have my brother load me some low pressure smokeless bismuth loads for geese. I almost picked up a 20ga parker this weekend, couple small dents(no problem) but after using a bore gauge, one barrel had a very small light buldge. Very hard to say no with the price and rarity of the gun, but I did. I know it can be pounded out, but I wasn't totally comfortable, my brother may pick it up though if its still available.

I always rely on my brothers expertise when finding them and shooting, he has a number of damascus guns including a couple 8 bores and shoots them all, none are sleeved just shoots low pressure smokeless loads through them. He helps Tom armbrust of Ballistic Research, who did all the pressure data for the double gun journal articles written by Sherman bell about strength of damascus and shooting long shells in short chambered guns. They are one of the only independent ballasticans with a real pressure gun and do a lot of testing for private individuals and independent testing for the ammo companies. They also specialize in loads and pressures for vintage guns especially damascus and big bores.
 
Thanks Bill.That's need to know information.I probably will not seek out a damascus gun,but you never know.Dave has a message in to Tom right now about the Very nice LC Smith he just bought.Wants to know how far he can go with chamber inserts to a smaller guage(20), and light field loads.Apparently some damascus loads were pretty stout.
 
either you or dave PM me, let me know if you emailed or called Tom. either way he is hard to get a hold of.

I would imagine a 20 ga insert wouldn't pattern real well, you can get just as low pressures from a 12ga shell from RST shotshells or hand load, think pressures are between 5-10,000 lbs. Beyond my knowledge is how different primers, powder, wads and crimps all effect the pressures but they know all that info.
 
Bill,we both load,but Dave will load Brass shells and fiber wads for his damascas barreld guns.The primer is the most significant difference in velocity and pressure,every thing else being the same.Different plastic wads do change pressures a slight ammount.Ballistic research has the equipment to check pressure,we can only go by velocity and appearance.I know that when I shot a Federal Black cloud 3" out of my 390,it felt hot and the appearance of the case head showed high pressure @1450fps.Dave may have been in contact with Tom by now.Mainly he wanted to check on the 20ga tubes with smokeless powder out of his 12ga Elsie.
 
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Hey Bill,

I see that Nick made it off to BA OK.

I still have that 16ga, 0-frame if you're interested. I am itching for a 20ga/391 to better suit my 3-shot fix.

Maybe we can talk if you make it to Carlisle for the VJP.

Also, back to topic, here is a link that I found on the Parker Gun Collectors site http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home . There were also some great articles in the Double Gun Journal that cited pressure tests in Parker and high grade damascus barrels that took over 30 proof (18000psig) loads and pressure transients that indicated that I think Blue Dot and black powder burn at the same rates delivering pressures (within 200psig) at the same points in the barrels.

All of it kind of indicates that the damascus warnings were more a result of obstructions in barrels than inherent weaknesses.

Best regards,

Bob
 
hey bob, I would take that gun in a heartbeat, but I am not sure I could afford it. yep those are the articles, in fact Tom, sherman and my brother are heading to out to do some spring snow goose hunting in a week. I am sure there will be some conversations about more ways to push these guns to the limits.

i will be up there one day, not sure which day yet though.
 
hey bob, I would take that gun in a heartbeat, but I am not sure I could afford it. yep those are the articles, in fact Tom, sherman and my brother are heading to out to do some spring snow goose hunting in a week. I am sure there will be some conversations about more ways to push these guns to the limits.

i will be up there one day, not sure which day yet though.
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Bill, is Marty your brother?
 
Bill,
thanks for the post and the link. I read the DGJ articles when they came out and have tried to get the word about them and the work that was done out when someone has asked.
Liked the Sherman Bell article on the 10 ga and just happened to run into a used Churchill SxS spanish 32 in fowler. The rest is history as they say. What a fun gun to wack the honkers and late divers with.
Be sure to tell your brother to thank Tom for his work next time he sees him. I have had a very good time reading about his research on pressure and loading.
 
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