Gas delivery problem

Joe Dunleavy

Joe Dunleavy

Active member
Attached is a picture of my duck boat. If the boat sits for while I can't get the ball to pull gas from the tanks. I have to un-hook the hoses and put the ball directly on the tanks lines to pull gas. Then re-attach everything and it works fine. It's a real pain in the butt!

The setup is as follows:
Tank1 - 5' of 3/8" line attached to three way valve at valve connector 1
Tank2 - 2' of 3/8" line attached to three way valve at valve connector 2
Three way valve at valve connector 3 connected to 4' of 3/8 line into water separator
2' of 3/8 line attached to ball then 4' of line to motor.

Sometimes gas never gets to the bulb. If I open the tanks it doesn't correct the problem either.
I've replaced the ball before.

Could the pickups be clogged in the tank?
Do I need to move the ball?
Do I need to add a second ball?

Any idea or do I need to call Lowe to find out what the heck is going on?

[inline gastanks.jpg]

gastanks.JPG
 
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I'd guess a ball can only handle sending fuel so far.

Who made that set up? tell us more, never seen anything like that.

-D
 
Joe,
Most of the time problems like this end up being an air leak somewhere in the line, kinda like most trailer light problems end up being ground related. Keep in mind that the force moving the fuel to the motor is really atmospheric pressure not the "suck" from the fuel pump. You have tried the first step by opening the tank caps and trying it. Next look for a pinhole or loose clamp which does NOT mean that fuel will leak out but air will leak in because the pressure outside the line is the same as what is pushing fuel through the system. If you don't find a problem I would add another primer bulb or maybe one to each tank. Sounds like the check valve in the bulb is not holding "prime" or line pressure. How long does it take to loose prime? Did this system ever work better? Also remember that when running the bulb doesn't do anything besides let fuel through.Good luck.
Shiny side up,
Wicker T, Walker & Charlie Brown
 
Why 2 three way valves. When I was running 2 tanks in my boat I only had one three way valve. Turn the valve one way and tank A worked turn the valve the other way and the b tank worked.
Your set up seems like it would need check valves, (more to go wrong)
The setup you are describing seem like you would have to turn one 3 way off the the other on.
 
Is that a 115 Yami jet? That thing reminds me of a Great Lakes steelhead rig. I've never seen the fuel senders exposed like that. I wonder if that's where your leak is. Did you change the hose yet?

Front console with the jackplate...that's a killer river rig. Good luck with the fuel issue.
 
I just had a problem with my Yamaha this year. I would try the following:

-could be an air leak like someone already identified. check your connections and for any possible leaks.

-don't know how old your fuel line/ball is but they don't last forever. My motor is a '99 with about 50 hours on it. Had to replace the ball this year.

Good luck.

You must kill the stripers on the river with that thing.
 
It's Lowe Roughneck Tunnel hull made for outboard Jet. It's a 16" hull with a 115 hp - 80 hp jet foot on it.
It's for running shallow rocky rivers.

I've replaced the ball this year.
 
I checked all the clamps and they are tight.
I don't have any gas leaks that I can see.

I feel this setup has never really worked the way it should. It's a Lowe setup option on the specific hull.

I do hear a slight hiss coming from the tanks when I primer the bulb.
 
It's only one three way valve. I was trying to diagram it out. I guess I wasn't clear.
You can see the valve in the picture on the left hand side.
 
Jay,

Yes, it's a 115 Yamaha outboard jet.

The sending units are sealed - they are basically below the 90degree fitting at the top of the tank.

It's a nice setup for the Delaware and Susky river.
Thanks.
 
Mike,

I'm at my wits end with this gas issue. It usually only happens during duck season when the rig sits for a few days and it's cold...

I don't see or hear any leaks. I may try replacing all the clamps like Tom suggested and add the second ball directly behind the three-way valve before the line to the water seperator.

I do okay on the stripers, I just don't have the patience for them. I'd rather rip smallies all day instead of trying to catch herring first and then go striper fishing.
 
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Try bypassing the water separator and see if the problem goes away. I bet it does.

If there's a weak point in any of the Yammies we've run (all of them come to think of it, from 8-115 hp) it's fuel delivery. The slightest little line pinch or crud in the pickup and they go south. Through experience I've come to view the separator as nothing but a big damned obstruction.

We've had much, much better luck running a cocktail of Sta-bil and drygas, burning premium gas, and keeping the tanks topped off at day's end, especially when it's cold, so as to prevent condensation in the tanks. Works a lot better than anything we ever achieved with water separators. We've tried a couple different configurations of separators, all of them failed in some way, and we've gone back to better living through chemistry. Has never seemed to hurt the motors a lick.

Also: Any place where you see the barbed Yamaha quick-connects: Replace either the entire connector, or the little neoprene grommet inside the connector, with new (both parts are available from your dealer for something like $14 and $6, respectively). Those little grommets get pretty chewed up over time and allow a little air leakage, especially at startup and low idle (as you speed up and create more vacuum pressure in the system, they seem to suck tight against the base of the fitting). I've realize significant gains in starting reliability and idle performance just by replacing them, especially those that haven't been done in a few years.
 
Matthew,
The water separator is new this year, but the problem is not.
How can I clean the pickups?
What are the "barbed Yamaha quick-connects"?


Try bypassing the water separator and see if the problem goes away. I bet it does.

If there's a weak point in any of the Yammies we've run (all of them come to think of it, from 8-115 hp) it's fuel delivery. The slightest little line pinch or crud in the pickup and they go south. Through experience I've come to view the separator as nothing but a big damned obstruction.

We've had much, much better luck running a cocktail of Sta-bil and drygas, burning premium gas, and keeping the tanks topped off at day's end, especially when it's cold, so as to prevent condensation in the tanks. Works a lot better than anything we ever achieved with water separators. We've tried a couple different configurations of separators, all of them failed in some way, and we've gone back to better living through chemistry. Has never seemed to hurt the motors a lick.

Also: Any place where you see the barbed Yamaha quick-connects: Replace either the entire connector, or the little neoprene grommet inside the connector, with new (both parts are available from your dealer for something like $14 and $6, respectively). Those little grommets get pretty chewed up over time and allow a little air leakage, especially at startup and low idle (as you speed up and create more vacuum pressure in the system, they seem to suck tight against the base of the fitting). I've realize significant gains in starting reliability and idle performance just by replacing them, especially those that haven't been done in a few years.
Click to expand...
 
JD -- the Yammy quick-connects are the little black rectangular things at each end of your fuel hose (or just the motor end, if there's some other kind of fitting on the tank end), about an inch and a half by an inch, with one hole for the fuel fitting and another hole for the barbed connector that the little springloaded clip hooks on to. Inside, there's a neoprene grommet or gasket (you'll see the silver check-valve ball sitting inside it) that goes around the fuel fitting -- that grommet shits the bed after a few years, especially if you connect and disconnect it frequently or run oxygenated gas.

If you replace the entire fitting, pay attention to the markings on them -- they only flow in one direction, and the one intended for the motor end will not work on the tank end, and vice versa. If it's still confusing after reading my mangled English, shoot me an e-mail at mrsnyder@syr.edu and I'll shoot you some pics, one of the boats is sitting in my drive and if we don't get another couple feet of snow I can get to it in the next day or two.

To clean the pickups on my portable tanks, it's usually a matter of undoing a few screws around where the fuel fitting attaches to the tank and lifting the whole fitting off the top of the tank, being careful not to tear any gaskets etc. -- then sloshing the bottom end of the pickup around in a can of mineral spirits or similar, maybe blowing it out with an air compressor if it's really cruddy. Little pieces of leaves and rust and crap can get caught in the screens and cause all kinds of trouble. Same principle with pickups in permanent tanks, though disassembling them can be a little trickier. The fact that you say your sending units are sealed leads me to encourage you to find a way to un-seal them, clean them, and put them back together.

The yamaha motors are great, but this is a weak point. I've often considered running a Mercury OEM fuel tank and hose, but I'm not sure I trust that to work right in the cold, and then everything wouldn't be universal from boat to boat, the way it is now.
 
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The three-way valve would periodically fail in my testing today. Sometime I could get air through and sometimes I could not.
I'm replacing the valve.

I also got the pickup out of the port side tank to see if it was clogged. I broke it, and it wasn't clogged. The top L connecter for the tank broke when I was thinking to myself, this thing is going to break...

I really think the problem was the valve all along.
I also added a second ball between the valve and the water seperator to prime the lines if this issue ever happens again.

I order the parts tomorrow and I should be good to go.
 
I had that problem last summer when the wind started blowing 6-7 ft waves with my 25 yamaha, trying to get back home running about 3/4 trotle and the motor dies down to rough idle, felt as if it was running on one cylinder,change both plugs while the girl friend was stering the boat straight in the waves with a paddle. Started the motor back up was good for about 1 or 2 min and the same thing happend so it unhoked the gas line at the motor and the tank and reconected it and all was good.Tried it out the next day running full trotle wiggled both tank and motor connections and the problem came back so i put on a new gas line that i had as a spare, has been good since. Now i keep my maintenace up a bit better,its not fun being broke down 3 miles from home on the water when its blowing hard.
 
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