German shorthair pointer

M

mo elgammal

Member
Hi to all ,
I need some advice on getting a German shorthairs hunting dog .
First of all this is going to be my first hunting dog I ever owned and I need to be able to hunt with it ducks and upland birds .. Would I be able to do that or I have to get different dog for different type of hunting?
Second I have the opertunity to chose between male and female which is better gender to get the job done or there is no different ?
Thanks in advance for any advice .
Mo
 
last bird dog i owned was a german shorthair pointer. Great bird dog and trained it also as a waterfowl retreiver. When waters are warmer ( early fall here) you couldnt ask for better duc/goose retreiver but after about thanksgiving dog really suffered from cold water to the point where it wouldnt enter water. Just doesnt have the coat for cold water retreiveing
 
I agree with the cold weather comments, I had two that I used for upland hunting and the were awesome. They were decent retrievers, but not in the cold.
 
Interesting little side note to my experience with my shorthair. In marsh situations on a cripple dog would usually stand a cripple until i commanded retrieve. Always picked up dead birds straight away. Prior to that I had a brittany i,d cross trained that would do same thing! Neither dod was a cold water retreiver but a good reason to have a lab or chessie as well as bird dog if you do both. Sadly our quail population doesnt warrant owning a bird dog any more. Really miss that.
 
What upland birds? I ask because retrievers can do really well on some upland birds, pheasants, for example. I've only had an OK experience with my labs with grouse, but they do work very well for others.

As for german shorthairs, I have not owned one. I do have quite a bit of experience with one that an old friend owned and I would not expect to use it in cooler/colder water. The dog I knew would get cold and shiver violently camping in the 40s and 50s when dry.
 
My dog Blue, a wire haired griffon, is a great upland and duck dog. I'm not sure I would take her out hunting in January in New England but if you do a search for wire haired griffon hunting on facebook you will see lots of folks hunting them in pretty cold conditions. I guess I would say it is necessary to have a good dog to successfully upland hunt but not completely necessary for duck hunting in a saltmarsh in January. I find Blue to be most helpful hunting early season in freshwater beaver ponds etc where ducks can quickly disappear and where it is difficult for me to wade through thick muck.

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My dog Blue, a wire haired griffon, is a great upland and duck dog. I'm not sure I would take her out hunting in January in New England but if you do a search for wire haired griffon hunting on facebook you will see lots of folks hunting them in pretty cold conditions. I guess I would say it is necessary to have a good dog to successfully upland hunt but not completely necessary for duck hunting in a saltmarsh in January. I find Blue to be most helpful hunting early season in freshwater beaver ponds etc where ducks can quickly disappear and where it is difficult for me to wade through thick muck.
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A WPG will be my next dog. Puppy breath in July.
 
I don't own a Shorthair but my Wirehair plays one in real life. :)

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He does not have a heavy coat at all. You will notice a vest on him, they help. He is not a serious cold water retriever but that is mostly because of me. I don't go after waterfowl in those situations any more. I know guys with Wirehairs and Shorthairs who hunt until the ice is too thick to break. It has a lot to do with the body style and weight of the dog. A 40lb skinny pointer is never going to take cold as well as a 65lb one.

I'd say it depends on how much duck hunting you do if that dog will work for you. You might want to look at a Drahthaar or Wirehair if you are doing more late season hunts. Some of the bigger and more properly coated Drahts can really do a lot.

If you are set on a pointing dog for upland then its a bit of a tradeoff. And before its suggested my limited experience with pointing labs has not been very positive as of yet.

I don't think male or female makes a big difference in the field. I like male dogs, I trust my ability to read them better. But I have hunted with some females that do a fine job. If you want a bigger dog to retrieve then a male may be the way you want to go. My male is a little baby around the house.

The site versatiledogs.com has a lot of people with decades of experiance with hunting these breeds on waterfowl.

Tim
 
that's what I really need to know about this type of retrievers ... I mainly hunt ducks but I am starting to get into upland bird hunting(pheasant ,quails , rabbits,..) with my friend so that been said he is getting a german shorthaired puppy and he asked me to pick up one for my self from the same breeder they about 9 weeks old (very cute) ...from what I have read about that breed in which say that breed can do it all but obviously it is not when it comes to cold waters as per comments. are they easy to train by their owners or I have to send it away to be train correctly?
as for male vs female I also read the female is easy to hunt behind she is focus on finding the birds on the other hands male spent more time try to establish dominant on the field ..I don't know that is true or false ? .. thanks everyone for the comments and the advices.. that's my first and I need all the help to get started right.
p.s them dogs looks great in the pic
 
Chessies and Labs hunt phesant arounf these parts... I would recommend a retreiver first, followed by Drathaar/Griffon if you only want one dog and intend to do upland and waterfowl.
 
that's what I really need to know about this type of retrievers ... I mainly hunt ducks but I am starting to get into upland bird hunting(pheasant ,quails , rabbits,..) with my friend so that been said he is getting a german shorthaired puppy and he asked me to pick up one for my self from the same breeder they about 9 weeks old (very cute) ...from what I have read about that breed in which say that breed can do it all but obviously it is not when it comes to cold waters as per comments. are they easy to train by their owners or I have to send it away to be train correctly?
as for male vs female I also read the female is easy to hunt behind she is focus on finding the birds on the other hands male spent more time try to establish dominant on the field ..I don't know that is true or false ? .. thanks everyone for the comments and the advices.. that's my first and I need all the help to get started right.
p.s them dogs looks great in the pic
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No one has said this, but SOME (many? most?) GSPs are so wired that they will not want to sit still in a blind. Given what you have said you want to use it for and that I know you hunt into the late season, I'd suggest a lab, golden, or chessie (all of which are cute as puppies too :).
 
I think you,ve just found the answer to your problem. If huntin buddy has gotten the upland dog you get the retreiver. Most training on the retreiveing end and basic obedience crosses over to both breeds. If you put the time into the dog with proper tecniques you can most certainly train any gunnin dog you would decide on whether it be upland or waterfowl. And you,ll learn as much from the dog as it learns from you!
 


My Griff is happy getting ducks when the water is not too cold, but its a fact that once it gets cold, it would be unwise to send him in after ducks... I think a GSP would be a great bird dog, but I don't think their duck season would be too long.
 
There is such a wide variety of German Shorthairs that it is hard to say if one will be calm in the blind and easy to train. Usually the ones from Deutsch Kurzhaar (German registered shorthairs) lines will be the best for sitting in a blind. With the Americanized field trial type Shorthairs it might be tougher. Even my Wirehair is not as calm as I hoped for. I enjoy upland hunting more so I put up with it.

I think German dogs are easy to train. Mostly because you don't have to be perfect, they take screw ups pretty well because they have a lot of natural instincts. It does take repetition along with exposure to birds and different situations but what dog doesn't take that.

Yep, my male pees on a few spots while we are hunting. I don't think that has ever cost him a bird. When there is bird scent in the area my male doesn't even notice there are other dogs alive. He can be as single minded as any dog. I have nothing against females, my next pup may be one just to get a smaller dog, but I don't think there is a lot of difference in the field. Many champion field dogs are intact males, they don't always think about humping something.

It doesn't sound like you are sold on a breed yet. If I were you I'd go to navhda.com and find a group in your area. Contact them and go visit a training day to see what the dogs are like. If you like a pointing dog for upland there is really no way a lab will do. If waterfowling is more important then a lab may be the best choice. You might want to check out some lab trainers also.

One more bit of advice, pick a breeder who has dogs doing what you want your dog to do. Before you look at pups do your research on the breeder and parents. All pups are cute and are hard to leave behind. Its at least a decade partnership you are going into. If you have to sit on a waiting list for a year to get the right pup it will be well worth it.

Good luck,
Tim
 
If you mostly hunt ducks stay away from the GPS. If you want to get one for upland you will need to decide where you will be hunting. There are some breeding long range some breeding short range. I had a really great GPS male, my friend has a female than were litter mates. The male was a better hunter but I can not say all males are better. As for retrieving if you shot a pheasant and it hit the ground running he would bring it back every time. As for hunting both retriever and GPS will get you birds but the GPS will get you more. Because when hunting a field with a retriever you have to quarter back and forth following the dog. With a GPS he will quarter the field that is a couple hundred yards wide and you will just need to walk down the middle.
Also keep in mind there are some labs that will point. In the late 70's I had a curly that was a good duck dog and would sometime point.
 
"A GSP will get you more"....substitute "pointing dog" and I've been hearing that all my life...and "sometimes" its even true......the 'real truth" in this statement depends on the hunter, the dog, and the "field".....every flushing dog owner has stories about the pointy dog guys leaving a field sneering at their flushers and saying..."we got em all"....only to kill the first of several birds within site of the Pointy Dog blowhards as they put their dogs up...AND VICE VERSA.......


I saw this a lot first hand this past season in Montana.....there with a single Lab and staying in campgrounds that was mostly populated with "pointy dog" people who smirked at the single Lab as they walked along their staked out "chain gangs" of multiple pointers.....I can tell you it didn't bother me one bit to clean double daily limits of Sharptail on the tailgate right in front of them, while they walked by on various "tasks" stopping to either say...."you killed those with THAT dog" and "we couldn't find em today WHERE WERE YOU".......


In the end its a personal thing and you really should spend a lot of time with someone that has the breed you think you want......and then weigh that against what you hunt the most, and where you hunt those species......its been said already but New York is a "cold place"....if you duck hunt most of the time and Upland Hunt in New York, (pretty much makes it a Grouse/WoodCock thing), I'd be looking at a flusher......if you travel to hunt and will spend multiple days a year in areas with Prairie Birds and wide open vista's and only duck hunt once in a while then "maybe" the Pointy Dog makes more sense......


Either one can do both and each group will tell you that "his choice" does them both better even while admitting that there are "shortcomings".......pick the one that bests suits what you hunt the most and the habitat that you hunt them in........


I got no skin in the German Dog thing....seen a few hunt and some of those were very good......some weren't.....be aware of the "prey drive" that oftens gets them in trouble when Cats are around....


The male/female choice is personal....I saw as many 600 yard female Setters in Montana last season as I saw males that ranged that far.....for what its worth I've always had males, (labs), but my next Lab, and my first Setter, will both be females....part of that is the desire to have a bit smaller dog, part is curiosity, and the rest, and tis is a big part, is the wife is convinced a female is "easier" than a male.....we'll see on that one....my luck I'll get a 30 lb female that thinks she's King Kong, considers "close" to be 900 yards and the only thing she likes more than hunting is beatin up boy dogs.....


Good luck on your choice.......


Steve
 
If you are a duck hunter just getting into upland, get a lab. I have hunted lots of waterfowl, pheasants and rabbits over labs. Very capable dogs for waterfowl and upland. I have hunted over a few german wirehairs and two were probably the best pheasant dogs I ever hunted over. None of the wirehairs could take cold water like my labs. My labs also were not as aggressive towards other dogs as those wirehairs. I do not know if shorthairs have that trait or not. One thing I really enjoy with my labs are their personalities.
 
Steve, I wonder how many of those pointy dogs have never seen a wild bird before they show up out there. Or it's the only time of the year when they do.
I haven't seen near the number of dogs work that you have but I've never seen a dog that I thought got every bird out of a field. I've seen both flushers and pointers get birdy only to have the bird give them the slip. It happens to the best.

I do agree with the earlier comment in this thread that a pointy dog can save a lot of zig zagging. Even if my dog goes off to the side I still mostly take a straight line in that direction. I would say it is easier hunting behind a pointer...let me a change that to easier behind a good pointer. There are a lot of bad dogs out there because of both breeding and training.

This is a real question as the only 'timber' hunting I have ever done is walking groves and a few river bottoms for pheasants. I often see guys saying that for eastern woodcock and grouse that a flusher is a good choice. I have trouble seeing how a flushing dog is better in those tight situations. Do they really work well? I understand you can 'Hup' a birdy dog if you aren't in position but a pointer is self 'hup'ing so to speak. My uneducated view of those eastern woods and the grouse and woodcock numbers would lead me to believe that a little rangier dog (like 100 yards) would give the hunter a lot more chances at birds. I'd also think being able to put the bird of oneself would be a plus. I really don't know though. I guess if a hunter is good at identifying the habitat then maybe you don't need that range? Is the forest lands that chopped up in the east that even there you need to keep a dog close? Just curious.

Tim
 
Tim...my "specific reason' for posting was the "classic"....."THAT dog will get you birds but THIS dog more".........to me that such cliché and so "wrong" that it required a comment.........you hang around on the UJ and might have seen a similar comment by some "THIS DOG or NO DOG" comment that a lab on Scaled Quail was "a waste of time" and that "Mearns were even worse"......that guy got, and justifiably, crucified for that statement.....first by the very gracious original poster who had not discussed how he did on his trip but called BULL SHIT to that comment with his "birds shot" response which clearly proved the guy not only wrong but made him look like an idiot for having made the comment......others responded as well and there were many Lab owners who had been very successful on both Scaled and Mearns with Labs......the guy was smart enough not to comment further....


So my point here was that "every dog is different"...."every breed is different"...."every hunter is different"....and "every hunting scenario is different" and no one dog is BEST in all situations....and to say so is foolish...in my OPINION......further the 'he'll find more" can't be proven.....If I was hunting a section of sparse CRP with no heavy cover in the Prairie States I'd be thrilled to have a 600 yard Pointy dog...in THAT CASE I'm sure the GSP would "produce more birds" than a flusher........however if I was hunting a cattail slough serpentine its way across the same section then I'd take the bet that a Lab would produce more birds........


As I've said I'm "going Pointy Dog" with Setter puppy that I'll pick up in April.....part of the decision on that is very similar to what you said about "zigzagging".....in a post on another site talking about "flushers vs. pointers" I talked about how "easy" Pointy Dog hunting was compared to Flushers....how you just walked your gun in a straight line waiting for the point...compared to having to stay in range of a Flusher to be sure you were in range for the flush....this was never as obvious to me as it was in Montana chasing Sharptails, which I believe are THE MOST DIFFICULT Prairie birds, (Prairie Chickens included in this).......my analogy for the two was one is digging a very long ditch with a great reward at the end vs. watching someone else dig the ditch with a great reward at the end.....both are GREAT FUN.....both are different and really its all what you prefer.....some want that constant contact with the dog and the bird...and the sweat and hustle that comes with it......and some prefer the more relaxed pace, (I'm assuming a well trained dog here and not some wild beast), and greater ground coverage of the Pointers........I want em both which is why I'll have both......


Specific to your "question" I've never hunted Grouse or Woodcock with anything but a flusher.....I've killed ALOT of Grouse over flushers.....in multiple States...both in the East where they are supposed to be geniuses and in the West where the guys in the East say their stupid.....I've never had a Grouse day where at the end I said to myself, "dammit I wish I had a pointer".......Bobwhites are the same....would it be "easier" to walk in on a point and know where the birds is.....sure.....is it "better".......depends on what you want......Woodcock are interesting to me because Dani and I are just back from a week in prime Woodcock Territory........in that incredibly thick habitat I'd give the pointer the edge mainly because the range there is so restricted.....contacts that provided a shot were CLOSE and I'm talking single digit feet and anything over 15 or so you might hear but weren't going to see.....its hard to keep anything but a tired old fat dog in that close so while we killed birds in those areas I'd say we would have had a better "shot per contact" ratio with a pointer.......if the birds were out in the open Flatwoods where they are "single Quail" then no difference between them and Bobwhites......


In the end what I was saying was "match the dog to the game and the style of hunting" and not some canned hyperbole that "this breed is better for that than that breed"........the OP is from New York....he says he's primarily a duck hunter just getting into Quail and Pheasants and Rabbits.....unless he travels to do it then he's going to be hunting a preserve......in that situation I'd throw my money on BLACK and get a retriever......if he see's himself in the West or the Desert most of the time then I'd give the Pointer the edge......but if he does both with one dog I'd go Retriever......


Oh....you asked..."how many of those Pointers were on the Prairie for the first time?....or only go once a year......I don't know the answer to that question but I do know this.....Drake was on the Prairie for his first time.....and the loudest of the "you're hunting a Lab" guys where the "retirees" with the big motor homes and the multiple dog kennels and were there in September.....from what I see the guys with the big strings of dogs, that arrive on the prairie in August to train and when they leave its because the weather drove them South to Oklahoma and Texas fro Bobwhites or Az and NM for Desert Quail and while they may have some "first timers" in the string they also have some seasoned dogs on the ground as well....its the first week of Pheasant Season that see's the "once a year" and "I bought this dog from a preserve just for this trip" that seem to match what you were saying......


For the record, IF IT ISN'T OBVIOUS, I have nothing against German dogs or English Pointers or any of the other pointy dog breeds...just like Labs there are Good ones Bad one Great ones and Once a lifetime ones....I love em all and would never make the blanket statement that one will do something better than another.....


Steve
 
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