Gun Question Model 12 Win

CraigS

Well-known member
My Wife has a Model 12 Win. in 16 gauge. It shoots fine it just won't eject the shells when it is pumped, its like the shells are to long.

Did they make shorter shells back in the day?

Anywhere you can get shorter shells or is there another problem.

I think the gun is pretty old but not real sure of the age.

Is the gun doomed to just hang on the wall and look nice.

Thanks
Craig
 
When it's pumped all the way back..the criped part of the shell is longer than the ejection port? By how much? How many brands have you tried in it?
 
Check on the barrel and see was the chamber is cut for. I think all the Md 12's say what the chamber size is. Some early Md. 12's 16 ga were chambered for 2 5/8", instead of 2 3/4" I beleive.
 
I have 16 ga. model 12 ca., 1949 the year I was born. It's 2 3/4" chamber but I can imagine the real early ones were chanbered for shorter cartridges. I think there are places that still sell shorter 16 ga. shells, I know you can get 2 1/2" 12 ga. for example. I'll have to look it up and get back to you.

The 16ga. Model 12 is a wonderfull gun for upland or the smaller shooter. It has a 16 ga. barrel on a 20 ga. receiver so it's quite light for the punch. Mine is a straight stock and I carry it all over Eastern Montana chasing pheasants.
 
Here you go. Early Md. 12's were chambered for 2 9/16" shells.


The Model 12 (introduced in 1912) was the next step from the Winchester Model 1897 hammer-fired shotgun, which in turn had evolved from the earlier Winchester Model 1893 shotgun. The Model 12 was designed by Winchester employee Thomas Crossly Johnson, and was based in large part on a design by John Browning. It was an entirely new hammerless design and was initially available in 20 gauge only (12 and 16 gauge guns were not sold until 1914). The Model 12 was the first truly successful modern hammerless pump-action shotgun ever produced. Its tubular magazine was loaded, and the action was fed, through the bottom of the gun. Empty shotgun shells ejected to the right. Depending on the particular wooden transformer plug installed in the magazine, 2, 3, or 4 shells could be stored in the tubular magazine. With its forged and polished steel parts, the ultimate reason for the end of its regular production in 1963 was that it had become too expensive to produce at a competitive price. The primary competition at this time came from the much less expensive Remington Model 870, which had been introduced in 1950. In addition to price competition issues, the Winchester Model 12 rarely had parts break or wear out, often serving multiple subsequent owners, which further served to limit repeat sales. The majority of "modern" Model 12 shotguns manufactured after the 1930's were chambered for 2¾-inch shotgun shells, only. Some early Model 12's, however, were chambered for 2 9/16-inch shotgun shells. To add further confusion, some of these early Model 12's have subsequently been modified, with their chambers lengthened to accept 2¾-inch shotgun shells, while others remain in their factory-stock 2 9/16-inch chamber lengths. Careful inspection by a gunsmith is always recommended to determine whether or not it is safe to fire a modern 2¾-inch shotgun shell in older Model 12's.
 


It does not have shell length on the barrel, it has

TRADE MARK
NICKEL STEEL-----------Winchester------------- MOD.1912-16GA MOD
reg. in u.s. pat.off & fgn

the other side has the manufatured by the Winchester repeating arms and the patton dates

Can I look up the serireal # on line some where and find out about it.
 
I think there is a site with that info..Winchester Collectors Association..or something like that. I've found Federal shells are longer than Rem or Win. shells. I think Ballistic Products has reloading components for the shorter shells and they have quite a selection of loaded odd ball ammo available.
 
http://armscollectors.com/sn/winlookup.php?file=win1912.dat
Put your serial number in the link above and it will tell you date of manufacture. I'm betting it is an early gun since it says 1912 and no chamber length.
I wouldn't think 1/8th would make that big of difference but there is an easy way to tell. Use a razor blade or exacto knife to carefully cut 1/16th and 1/8th off of a couple empties and see if they will eject out of the chamber. If it is having trouble ejecting shells that are loaded then it is an ejector problem. Parts are not too tough to come by for a model 12.
A M12 in 16ga is a classic upland gun. Sure hope you can keep it from just being a wall hanger.

Tim
 
I have a 16GA Mod 12 bought by my Grandfather in 1937. It will not eject Federal shells either. Just use Winchester of Remington and you won't have any problem with it. Ive been shooting this gun since 1974. If you compare fired shell length brand to brand, Federals are longer.
 
Hi Craig,

I don't know for sure about Winchester, but as a young man I had a Browning 16 that an uncle brought back from WWII that was chambered for 2 9/16 and 2 3/4 shells would not work in it. If you poke around long enough you might find some 2 9/16 or maybe you could adapt a Mec loader and cut down some 2 3/4 shells to make it work or you could have the chamber and forcing cone lengthened. Probably best to hang onto it as a collecter's item and find something else to shoot. The Brits make all kind of short shells for the 12 guage so they may do that for the 16 as well.
Good luck,
Harry
 
Went and bought a box of Winchester 16 ga. shells this morning and tried the gun, does anyone know where I can get 2 9/16" shell at.

The gun loads and ejects the unfired shells great, just after there shot it doesn't throw them out, the Winchester's do come out easier than the Federals tho.

now the quest for 2 9/16 shells begins

Thanks for the help
Craig
 
Hill Rod and Gun in Bozeman, Montana specialized in affordable English doubles. He carries short shot shells as a lot of the older English gun were chambered for 2 1/2" twelve gauge and 2 5/8" sixteen gauge. his website (hillrodandgun.com) shows that he carries the shorter sixteen gauge shells. He nice guy to talk to to, his number is (406) 585-2228.

The guys on the Parker Collectors Association forum have other sources for short shells. Hope this helps, please don't hang that gun up, they are wonderfull, well made, responsive guns.

John
 
Would be best to open the chamber and be able to shoot standard ammo in my opinion.
 
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