Let me rephrase but I still need help!!

J

Jared Baugh

New member
I guess Im going about this the wrong way and Im sorry for any confusion from my previous post. I know what I need, the problem is finding something that will fit those needs. I assumed Id built it myself because I could do it at my pace and meet my expenses as funding was available. Plus I can tailor the design to meet my needs.

Here's what I need. Has to be light and able to be placed and returned to the roof of a mini-van. I don't have a trailer, or a pick up. Im looking to keep my weight under 70lbs and roughly 12 feet (as a max length) so getting it up and down is easy (or should I say easier) instead of a battle.

Be something that I can paddle, be it with a kayak or canoe paddle. I dont want to be messing with a motor since I have to lift it. I enjoy paddling anyway so its not a compromise.

Be able to hold myself (5'10" 175lbs), my 55lbs retriever, 12ga. and say 2 dozen decoys. I can hunt from reclined or seated position doesn't matter. I hunt out of marshy areas, lots of places to brush up and hide as opposed to an open water lay out.

Be stable enough to work my dog out of, and not go swimming every time I send him.

This is what I need it to do for me.

I had planned on using luan to help cut my weight, 4oz cloth on the bottom, and taping seams inside and out (where available) to give increased strength, and glass both sides to also help with strength.

Ideas? Suggestions? Is this a trimmed down KARA? Or a widened pirogue? Or something else all together? I dont know whats out there, and I would really appreciate some insight and ideas from you folks out there. You folks are pretty familiar with whats out there and what I need to change to make something work the way I need it to. I had already looked at using luan on a KARA and possibly adding foam between the ribs to help the stablility and draft so Im not a submarine.

Any help on this is greatly appreciated
 
Jared,

For the most part any boat in this class is going to be a bit awkward to load on the van by yourself. It's certainly doable but it just takes a bit of work. If you haven't done so already, I would take a serious look at the momarsh boats. In particular, the original fatboy. I have one of the new styles and I think Ira said he can dial the fiberglass schedule in to bring the boat in around 85ish lbs. This boat is flat-out awesome. I know you said you wanted something around 70lbs but I think for the extra 15lbs you will be happy with it. It is super stable, I have no fear of taking a shot in any direction. Taking a pee of the side is no trouble either. It has a low profile and with a little natural vegetation the boat disappears. One downside for you is that while it paddles ok it doesn't compare to a canoe or kayak. It's just considerably wider so you have more drag in the water. I've done it, it works, I just wouldn't want to do it for very long. I haven't done it but I've been told that it poles very well. If you want to carry you, your dog, a couple dozen deeks +, and other gear this fits the bill. Give the momarsh site a peek and if you're at all interested ping Ira on this site for someone in your area that has one. You might be able to take it for a spin or a look see before you buy.

Ryan
 
I've been working on exactly the same idea for quite some time. The issue you'lll run into is the width (36" for decent paddleing IMO) and length. I personally have a Carston Puddler (10' L and 36" W) and I overload it with me at 275 dozen 2 dozen dekes and some gear. The end result is that it plows and is difficult to get decent speed out of it. The other issue I ran into is body position while paddleing. I kneel and it works really well with a board to rest the toush on. I also can layout shoot in it in very protected waters.

I really believe that the key to a boat like this is 14' of length, really good secondary satability, and good underwater shape. Take a look at the Hoffgen hunting boat. If my current project comes up a bust, I'll be looking into somethinig similar. I have found that the tough part is keeping the weight down while ensuring the durablility desired in a duck boat.

You might want to look into something with oars, like a pram or wood jon boat. Properly shaped, they oar along pretty well and give you much better stability.
 
Momarsh DP and a hitch mounted canoe loader. I just got one,I car top it on my 4Runner by myself...I'm 47 yrs old 150 lbs............,paddle it for miles,work my 70# Pudelpointer out of it,fish out of it,and just flat out enjoy everything about it. Earlier this spring, a small lake that I frequent was covered with Scaup and Buffleheads, I got the DP upwind of them,reclined the Invisilounge down so I could just see over the combing, and drifted and paddled gently to within 10 yards of a rafting flock. It's an amazing little boat,........an absolute weapon.
 
Curt,
Take a look at the Marsh rat boat by Mallard marine. compact, light weight but with good bit of room. It really looks like it may fit your needs.
 
I once broke the windshield of a vehicle when my heavy damn aluminum canoe hit the rubber molding of the windshield. For cartopping I favor plastic type canoe/kayaks because they don't scratch the car when I singlehanded muscle them to a roof rack.

A 2 person kayak (for more cockpit space) in dark green will meet your requirements.
 
I once broke the windshield of a vehicle when my heavy damn aluminum canoe hit the rubber molding of the windshield. For cartopping I favor plastic type canoe/kayaks because they don't scratch the car when I singlehanded muscle them to a roof rack.

A 2 person kayak (for more cockpit space) in dark green will meet your requirements.
Click to expand...

A T type,hitch mounted canoe loader,if used properly doesn't take a great deal of muscle to load a pretty substantial boat. And it will never touch the vehicle except on the crossbars of the rack where it will ride. There is a tutorial on them on Cabelas website, about a 100# woman loading about a 14' canoe on an SUV...Alone. Some guys make car topping alot more work than it needs to be.
I wouldn't put my dog in a kayak or a canoe,as I am not a great swimmer,....... especially in 35 degree water. But that's just me,..... always looking for comfort and safety.
 
Most "strings" concerning stability focus on beam & length of the watercraft. Weight distribution is at least as important. Pirogues & canoes have stability issues because the seats cause the weight to be high. Dropping down to your knees lowers the weight & increases the stability. Sitting lower, like in a kayak, lowers the weight still more & therefore increases stability.

An Aquapod appears to me to be basically a kayak. You sit on/near the bottom. I dropped the seat on a Old Town pack canoe & use a kayak paddle. It is now substantially more stable. I wouldn't want to paddle it all day, but it is fine for an hour or so.

AWS & Boykin spaniels supposedly exist because duck hunters wanted a small dog that wouldn't tip a canoe. The typical weights for both breeds is under 40 pounds. A 55 pound retreiver in a canoe sized boat is pushing the envelope. Carrying any dog plus a couple dozen decoys in a small craft still says "2 man kayak" to me.
 
I would respectfully disagree on the two man kayak option based on what he listed as requirements. I started out in a 14' wilderness systems two man kayak (full open cockpit like a canoe) and it does not haul much. I still use it from time-to-time when I want to get to a great little woody hole which requires paddling through very skinny water. But carrying a person, dog, 2dz deeks, gun/ammo - no way. You are pushing the envelope. You'll be in one seat, your dog in the other. Not much room left over. You can stuff a few deeks in the stern area, a couple under each bungee strap fore/aft and your gun between your legs. You try stacking a couple dz on the stern or front decks and that baby is unstable, trust me. And while I'd agree that the kayak is more stable then a canoe, you stick a dog in there which isn't super steady and you'll be swimming. I would also argue that you can't safely hunt from it. Short of a straight on shot it feels like it's going to roll if you're swinging right or left on a shot.

If you're only taking minimal gear and don't plan to hunt from it, the kayak is a great option.
 
I do not build boats, we just use them. Here is what I know about a few manufactured boats that weigh 70 lbs or less for loading on your vehicle.

I have a Golden Hawk 10' canoe I really like. It is 50 lbs, wide, and stable. I haul myself, dog, decoys, and gun. I usually do not hunt out of the canoe, but I have. Had the dog jump out a few times with no tipping. Have owned it since 1995 and love it. Have used it to break ice an a number of occasions. They make a 12' that is still in your weight range.
http://www.goldenhawkcanoes.com/wst_page2.html

I guess Old Town quit making the predator, but the 14' Predator Kayak has room to haul the dog, decoys and a gun. Will not haul as much gear as the canoe, but works. Dog can jump out without tipping. 68 lbs. Can sit the dog behind me for shooting and fishing. I use this boat for smally fishing in rivers all summer and really enjoy the boat

Attbar 10' aqua pod is very stable and easy to paddle. Works well for layout hunting in the marsh and on some lakes with emergent vegetation. Paddle right into the lily pads and hunt. I do not hunt with a dog when using this boat. I do not want to shoot over the dog. I see they are making a poly boat now that is more affordable than the fiberglass models.

Mallard Marine makes the Marsh Rat that is almost 10 foot long. I have looked at them, sat in them, and picked them up, but have never paddled or hunted one. Pretty affordable price, 58 lbs, they make a good looking layout blind for them for $200 more. I would not hunt the dog out of the boat. Should be very stable by the width. Sportmans warehouse had these on clearance for $495.
 
sportsYak I think this is the link. http://www.1stdirectproducts.com/sunboat.html This dingy is 7'1" long weights 48 lb. Is very stable. I could sit on the side. Enough room for you and the dog. I used one for over ten years for trout fishing,duck hunting.

It is moved by oars, does not paddle well. You could mount a small motor to the back. I never did so. I used some straps and carried it back to beaver ponds. I also had a sail rig for it. Was out in Lake Winnebago in four foot waves and felt safe. Something I would never do in my fourteen foot boat or a canoe .

It fits the criteria of one man car topable. You, a doz decoys and a dog. It shouldn't break the bank. I would still have it but it layed out in the sun and eventually cracked. I used it after I had a larger boat to haul decoys. It worked real well to pick up decoys. The color is not great for duck hunting but that can be solved.
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I could never get a link to work *%&#%
 
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Ryan

I agree with you for the most part. This whole project as posed pushes the envelope:

"...weight under 70lbs....roughly 12 feet (as a max length) .... I can paddle...hold myself (5'10" 175lbs), my 55lbs retriever, 12ga. and say 2 dozen decoys...reclined or seated...stable enough to work my dog....."

No 12' 70 pund boat I've ever seen will do all this half way well.

A production kayak is my take on coming close, and can be easily sold.
 
10-4 on that Gary. I will say that the Fatboy comes pretty damn close, save the weight.

Any reason you can't tow a small PWC trailer behind your van? Hell, you can even find a small flatbed type trailer for canoe/kayak/momarsh type boat for next to nothing. If you didn't need to worry about pressing the weight over your head to rack it, it may open a few more options up for you.
 
Ryan

- I said the same thing about a small trailer in my first post.

My priority is safety - that is why I say a Kayak/aquapod/anything where weight is carried low for best stability.

Then his 70 pound criteria kicks in.
 
I looked for the same thing a few eyars back. Couldn't find anything to meet all those requirements. My list, in order of importance (after safety):

1. Weight - had to weigh around 60 - 70 pounds
2. Had to be propelled via paddle, preferably a kayak paddle.
3. Had to be able to hold myself, a bunch of gear, and 2-3 dozen decoys.
4. Low profile.
5. Able to fit in the bed of a pcik up without too much overhang.

I found the boat in the Hoefgen Duck Boat. It met all requiremenst except it is 15' long which I didn't especially like nor do I today. I adjusted my requirements so that could car top the thing and it works. I too use one of those canoe caddies to get the boat on top of the pick up and I can easily do this myself.

Other boats similar to the Hoefgen are some of the Fiberdome products and the Carsten products although the Carstens are too heavy for my needs. Aquapd works and and of Ira's boats (Fatboy, Fatboy DP) may work for you as well.

http://www.hoefgencanoes.com/duckboat.html

Mark W
 
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