my bbsb refurb update 6-9-12

J

john a

Active member
1st pic of the 12ft lem blackwell 1950s sneakbox that i just started to repair on 5-1-12 this shows bad hull plank and glass still on
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glass on
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screw/nails of hull planks that are mostly rusted under the glass
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now some hull pics without the glass on just removed all hull glass in about 45min
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small corner of transom rotted out abot 2in x2in by hull boards that where rotted it looks like the boat was keeped on this side for a long time thats where most of the rot id located
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glass off and only other spot i'm worried about the dagger board slot was unpluged under glass and wood is a bit soft around it not sure how i'm going about this make back into a sailing box or remove dagger board trunk and replace plank ps did not come with the sailing rig
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here is a link to photobucket with all pic to date
http://s589.photobucket.com/albums/ss337/jatr24/bbsb%20refurb/
pass word is bbsb12
 
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well besides the 2x2 transom rot 2 hull boards and 1 deck board and the dagger board well board the rest of the boat as of now seems real good all ribs,deck cockpit area are fine oarlocks ,motor bracket(which is offset).rubrail need to be redone
if anyone knows any suppliers in NJ for the following please let me know
ceder boards
ss or bronze screw
epoxy,cure,pumps,mixing cup ,brushes,etc
thanks very much
 
well besides the 2x2 transom rot 2 hull boards and 1 deck board and the dagger board well board the rest of the boat as of now seems real good all ribs,deck cockpit area are fine oarlocks ,motor bracket(which is offset).rubrail need to be redone
if anyone knows any suppliers in NJ for the following please let me know
ceder boards
ss or bronze screw
epoxy,cure,pumps,mixing cup ,brushes,etc
thanks very much
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Shierer brothers in Egg Harbor for the wood you won't beat the price. They will have the cedar plankingyou need for the hull and the white oak you need for the motor board. Fastenal, they are all over the state, for the screws. Raka.com or us composites for the epoxy supplies. For mixing cups use disposable plastic cups. The boat don't look too bad good luck with it. Chris
 
Doesn't look too bad. You just need to give the whole boat a good sanding and get the whole thing down to good clean wood and take off those bad planks and replace them. I would resink all those nails and then put stainless screws in next to the nails. Once you give it a good sanding and clean it all up you will see what needs to be replaced. Also check the frames on the corners where the big hole is make sure the frames aren't rotted. If that little bit of rot on the corner is all thats rotted in the transom I wouldn't replace the whole transom I would just dig out the rotted wood and fill it with thickened epoxy. If a lot is rotted then you will have to replace the whole thing. It only lookes like 2 or 3 planks that are bad. Are you gonna take out the sailing dagger board trunk and replace that center plank. Looks like a fun summer project. Again if I can help in any way let me know. Also on real sunny warm days let it sit in the sun to really dry out the wood. the planks will start to shrink as they dry up and the gaps inbetween the planks will open up so you can fill it with thickened epoxy.
 
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Pretty solid advice thus far, but have to disagree with the resinking of the old nails. If your going to upgrade to SS fasteners, why not pull the old nails and replace with SS screws? If you can get them out without digging for them, then pull them. Seems like a good idea to have a small, thinned out batch of epoxy on hand to dribble into each fastener hole prior to sending the new screw home. This will fill any voids and give the new fastener a solid bedding. Just my $.02...



One thing to remember.....this is your boat and you can do what ever you please to it. It can get overwhelming when other people throw a lot of "should of - could of - would of's" at you. Nice project, thanks for sharing it with us. Keep the pics coming.
 
John, what you have is very similar to what I worked through as far as damage to repair and replace. I maintained my sailing function. See my multiple build posts. Mike suggests pulling the nails, good luck. I started to do that but was making a bigger mess. After I screwed everything tight, I reset all the nails well and faired over them. With 2 layers of 6oz cloth nothing is moving in the boat. Your glass was very typical of polyester on wood, and you are fortunate, as it comes off real easy. I was fortunate not do have that step at all my box was never glassed before. there are several BBSB rebuilds in the past year, mine was 2009/2010 (though still customizing today). Chris did his last year..... PM if you want a cell number to consult with.

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Just wondering,With an old boat with that much rot, is it or was it worth the time and money to rebuild it or is it better to make a new one and use the old one as a template? I can understand the nostalgia of the old boat and the desire to make good again.
 
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why the offset on the motorboard?
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My sneak had an offset motorboard aswell. John's was a sailer so I can see it being that way so not to interfear with the rudder. I am not sure why my sneakbox had the offset motorboard as it was never a sailer. Mine did have a sculling horn and a sculling oar that came with the sneakbox. I am not sure but maybe it was offset to the otherside to be away from the sculling horn. Just a guess.

In this pic you can see the offset motorboard and the sculling horn on the right side. I did not put the horn back on after my rebuild.
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These last 2 pics are of the centered motorboard that i put on at a 15 degree angel. The angel makes a big difference in keeping the bow down. It also give you more room to make adjustments with your motor.
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Also on real sunny warm days let it sit in the sun to really dry out the wood. the planks will start to shrink as they dry up and the gaps inbetween the planks will open up so you can fill it with thickened epoxy.

he chris i now i t does not look it but the boat is very dry
thinking of removing the dagger trunk as i do not have the rig anyway
and that plank feels soft close to dagger trunk

ps thinking of heading to the tuckerton seaport sunday morning after i scout for some turkeys
you no what time it opean and is the boat shop opean
thanks john
 
I am not sure about the seaport hours I would call as they may be closed. If it was me I would take out the sailing rig. It will give you more under deck space.

Dave D. Left his cuz he is doing a sail rig. If you don't plan to sail no need.
 
John, take a look at your deck beams, likely you have one that is bisected by the trunk. You will have to sister in a frame there, and maybe the frames at each end of the trunk too, especially if you want to be able to sit or stand on that deck. You can do a butt block on the keel plank if you are pulling the truck. Again, search my photos and you will see a butt plank splice as I replaced a large section of the keel plank when I installed the new truck. The trunk does take up a lot of space and limits what you can put under the decks.
 
John, take a look at your deck beams, likely you have one that is bisected by the trunk. You will have to sister in a frame there, and maybe the frames at each end of the trunk too, especially if you want to be able to sit or stand on that deck. You can do a butt block on the keel plank if you are pulling the truck. Again, search my photos and you will see a butt plank splice as I replaced a large section of the keel plank when I installed the new truck. The trunk does take up a lot of space and limits what you can put under the decks.
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yes i will need to sister all those ribs if i do take it out still not sure and i do not think it takes up much space its only about 4in wide but i have never had a sneak before what kinds of stuff you guys shoving up under the deck anyway
 
I fit a 3gal tank on one side of the trucnk, on the other side I have my anchors. If you are not going to sail it, I would definitly take it out, because you will have to deal with it for the motor. I had to build a plug for the trunk and gasket it to keep water from squirting up the hole while underway. Serious pressure there. But keep in mind, thre are few 12ft sailing sneakboxes around, so it is unique. I am building my sail rig now, it is a fun project.
 

i do not think it takes up much space its only about 4in wide but i have never had a sneak before what kinds of stuff you guys shoving up under the deck anyway [/QUOTE]
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For me I stuff one of those storage bags that are vacume sealed way up in the bow of my sneakbox. In that I have extra gloves,hat,jacket,2 lighters, and back up charged cell phone battery. Never needed any of it last season but I like knowing its there. It also takes up almost no room. Then I have my anchor and 3gal gas tank. And random other little stuff.
John if your front deck is not high enough you might not be able to fit your gas tank on the side of the dagger trunk. DaveD's sneakbox is really deep. That's why he fits his tank there with the trunk. Mine would not fit my 3gal almost doesn't fit I made the floor boards removable to get the tank in.
 
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what size and length S.S screws should i use for the hull planks and deck boards

is there some kind of formula or rule of thumb to size screws to use. like plank thickness X rib thickness =______
so not to crack the rib

thanks john
 
what size and length S.S screws should i use for the hull planks and deck boards

is there some kind of formula or rule of thumb to size screws to use. like plank thickness X rib thickness =______
so not to crack the rib

thanks john
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I don't think there is a rule. I used 1 1/4inch #8 ss screws for the deck and hull. I used a counter sink bit with the drill bit to drill a pilot hole. I drilled down about 1/8inch that way I can fill over the screw with thickened epoxy. Then I used 2 inch #8 to screw into the transom and bow block and did the same with the counter sink bit.
 
what size and length S.S screws should i use for the hull planks and deck boards

is there some kind of formula or rule of thumb to size screws to use. like plank thickness X rib thickness =______
so not to crack the rib

thanks john
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. Then I used 2 inch #8 to screw into the transom and bow block and did the same with the counter sink bit. ok im not clear what you mean about this part im going to get some 1 1/4 #8 ss then i want to tighten up every thing a can before i start sanding or removing any boards or planks to try and keep every thing in check
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Go ahead and sand everything first and get all the old resin residue off with an orbital sander once that is done then see what planks need to be replaced and replace them. while you are screwing the new replacement planks in just go around and screw in all the old planks nice and tight to the ribs. The main thing to do now is sanding getting to a clean working surface. then remove bad wood and replace with new cedar planks. then screw and reset all nails with a punch and hammer. once all new wood is on and all planks are screwed down you can fill over all the new screw heads and any gouges knot holes and fill all gaps with thickened epoxy. let that dry for 24hrs then go back and put a coat of epoxy over the whole surface of the deck or hull I did the deck 1st. let that dry for a few days. now you have made a nice hard surface and also let the cedar soak up the epoxy. Its best to do this step before glassing that way the wood will be full of epoxy and not soak up the epoxy from the cloth and starve the cloth for epoxy while glassing the deck. Ok now you have your holes and gaps filled and all the wood has epoxy in it. so now sand sand and sand and sand some more. you will find any low spots this way as they will stay shinny cuz the sander is not getting them. you can go back and fill these low spots with thickened epoxy and sand again untill there is no shinney low spots. once this is done you are ready to glass. here are a few pics to help you see what I am trying to say

This pic you see the new counter sunk screws that need to be filled with thickened epoxy. you also see the gaps between the planks are filled with thickened epoxy. One very important thing to remember is any time tou put thickened epoxy down you need to paint the surface with regular unthick epoxy first and let that soak in for 20 min or so. this will allow the bond to be greater and saoked into the wood not just on the surface also wont soak up the epoxy from the thick epoxy.
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This pic you see all gaps,knots,gouges, and screw holes filled with epoxy and wood flour mixed into thickened epoxy.
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This pic you see where I put a coat of epoxy over the deck and let dry for a few day then sanded to see the low spots. you see the low spots as the unsanded shinney spots. these need to be filled so you don't have low spots when you start to glass. also it will make you have an uneven surface.
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This pic you can see where I went over all the low shinney spots on the hull with thickened epoxy to make everything fair this is called fairing. you make everything fair.
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This pic you see that there are no low shinney spots and everything is fair. after a good wipe down to remove all dust the hull is ready to glass. This will keep you busy for a while. any other questions let me know.
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