Opinions Wanted on Plans

Ben M

Active member
Just got my user name verified today. Been wanting to ask y'all about the plans I'm thinking of for a little while here. What a great site this is! I've been enjoying pics of your boats . . . there are some excellent builders and hunters here!

On to my project . . . Though I've grown up on the water and had an uncle who built wood boats, this will be my first boat build. My plan is to cut my teeth on this one, then move up to a bigger, more involved build.

Most of the time I hunt solo (though waterfowling is unquestionably a sport that gets better with a friend or three) on fast moving rivers here in Virginia with my best buddy, Max the Dog, an 80lb Lab. I'm thinking of a BBSB-ish design, but it would need to track well and handle more like a canoe or a kayak in the rock-strewn rivers around here. The traditional BBSBs seem to be superb marsh boats, but appear to lack the quick handling necessary to keep off the rocks when they sometimes jump out at you in the dark.

Devlin's designs are certainly popular, and a couple of his small sneak boats are attractive to me. But I've found what I think may be "the one" for me and want to know what the experienced folks here think about it before I take the plunge. Here's a link to it: http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_mars.html

I've never hunted out of a sneak box and I've never built a boat . . . which is why I'm asking for YOUR opinion! The "Marsh Rat" there is a plywood/fiberglass design with a projected finished weight of 90lbs. The pointed bow and narrow design look to provide the maneuverability I'm looking for. With the addition of some grass rails, there's plenty of room in the 6.5' long cockpit to hide myself and Max the Dog.

But does this design look stable enough? Am I overlooking anything here? What do you think about this design?

Thanks for a great site and I look forward to your advice!
 
Wow, never seen that design before! Looks like it would work to me. Do you need/want a motor or is rowing ok? Devlin's Poleboat may be perfect for you if you don't mind rowing/poling.
 
Wow, never seen that design before! Looks like it would work to me. Do you need/want a motor or is rowing ok? Devlin's Poleboat may be perfect for you if you don't mind rowing/poling.

I certainly don't mind doing a little work to get where I want to go . . . paddling keeps me warm! Hahaha . . . BUT, I'm finding that having a motor would open up so many options for me. Rather than being limited to where I can float downstream to, I could motor upstream. Amazing concept! Hahaha . . . A motor is a luxury I'm very interested in! :)
 
Looks good to me. With a 4 foot beam it should be stable enough. I Like it, in fact I think I will order
a set of plans myself.
 
Am I overlooking anything here?

One nice thing about the Devlin boats is that stitch and glue has no interior frames like the plans you posted the link to have. May not be a deal breaker for you but it is something to consider.
 
Ben

First off...Welcome!

That is a neat design. As far as ease of construction, I would lump that one in with the Kara Hummer. Many guys build a Kara, and modify it it run an small outboard or electric trolling motor on it. While this works, the design you have here would suit this purpose, plus I think the hull design, while no a speed demon, would be more effecient and track better as well.

You mentioned "handle more like a canoe or a kayak in the rock-strewn rivers"...well, I dont think it will handle anything like a canoe. I built a strip canoe years ago, and have been waiting (for time space and money to all be ready) to build another strip canoe/double ended duck boat. Something like the Wisconsin skiffs of some of the Lake StClair/Lake Erie marsh boats of historical significance here in the midwest. If you like handling canoes, this may be a route you'd like to explore that would give you the low profile, decked boat that would conseal well as well as having the decks for forgiveness in case of a rogue wave washing over...something to think about.

Also, the Spira website calls it "ultralight"...90 pounds is hardly untralight. Dont get me wrong, I've had canoes up to 105 pounds and I could mount and portage them solo (with a yoke) but that is a man handling job if by yourself unless you plan to have a trailer. On top of that, looking at the materials spec'd on the study plans, I wouldn't be surprised if your actual weight came in a bit over that...especially for a first time builder (we all worry about strength the first time and over build it a tad).

Food for thought...

Best
Chuck
 
Ben,
as Chuck stated that design uses a Jig to build it. This holds the shape of the panels and then you set them with the epoxy. The Jig is removed after. Sams designs use the panels to get the shape and the builder supports them as he glues it together.
Either way works and many boats have been built of both types.

It looks like a nice straight forward starter project. Build it and see how it suits your hunting. Take pictures and post often. Then build the next boat when you find out what you need\want. Then start thinking about the barn you need for the boats that your going to have.


Take a min and fill out your profile in the section at the top of the page.
 
The Jig is removed after.


Bob,

From what I see on the Spira site and the study plans that is a frame that stays in there, much like a Kara. (correct me if I'm wrong) The frame + Plywood + fiberglass/epoxy does not equal an 'ultralight' boat in my opinion...but I guess it does say "Ultralight Duckboat"...so in comparison to a Banks Goliath, I guess it is, in a realtive sense :)

Chuck
 
Chuck,
Looks like you are right on. I only looked at the photos and A$$umed that the frame came out. There is a nice detail on the Bateau Boat Plan site that shows how to frame a jig and set a shape and then flip the hull off of the jig. Just like the big boys in the sport fishing machines.

My mistake.

It will be a bit heavier, but you dont have to do miles of fillets either.


I still say build it and see how it works.
 
The Jig is removed after.


Bob,

From what I see on the Spira site and the study plans that is a frame that stays in there, much like a Kara. (correct me if I'm wrong) The frame + Plywood + fiberglass/epoxy does not equal an 'ultralight' boat in my opinion...but I guess it does say "Ultralight Duckboat"...so in comparison to a Banks Goliath, I guess it is, in a realtive sense :)

Chuck

The wesbite also says that the boat can be "hoisted" to the top of your car. Hopefully, there's a handy overhead hoist at your local boat launch :) or a couple of strong friends :)
 
I always thought any boat could be stitch and glued ' and with all the fillets epoxy and tape how much weight are you saving . I am starting a glen L 12' that i want to change to a plaining hull and stitch it
 
I always thought any boat could be stitch and glued '

Really? Interesting . . . a fundamental design alteration like that should probably be left to a builder with more experience than ME. Hahaha . . . But, that WOULD save some weight . . . Hmmm . . .
 
Ben

First off...Welcome!

That is a neat design. As far as ease of construction, I would lump that one in with the Kara Hummer. Many guys build a Kara, and modify it it run an small outboard or electric trolling motor on it. While this works, the design you have here would suit this purpose, plus I think the hull design, while no a speed demon, would be more effecient and track better as well.

You mentioned "handle more like a canoe or a kayak in the rock-strewn rivers"...well, I dont think it will handle anything like a canoe. I built a strip canoe years ago, and have been waiting (for time space and money to all be ready) to build another strip canoe/double ended duck boat. Something like the Wisconsin skiffs of some of the Lake StClair/Lake Erie marsh boats of historical significance here in the midwest. If you like handling canoes, this may be a route you'd like to explore that would give you the low profile, decked boat that would conseal well as well as having the decks for forgiveness in case of a rogue wave washing over...something to think about.

Also, the Spira website calls it "ultralight"...90 pounds is hardly untralight. Dont get me wrong, I've had canoes up to 105 pounds and I could mount and portage them solo (with a yoke) but that is a man handling job if by yourself unless you plan to have a trailer. On top of that, looking at the materials spec'd on the study plans, I wouldn't be surprised if your actual weight came in a bit over that...especially for a first time builder (we all worry about strength the first time and over build it a tad).

Food for thought...

Best
Chuck

Thanks so much!

I'm definitely wanting the option to put a motor of some sort on the back. The double-enders are attractive for a lot of reasons, but don't allow for that . . . unless I were to rig up some sort of side-saddle motor mount . . .

As for weight . . . I'm actually thinking of building it with lighter wood than spec'd and then adding an extra layer of glass. The plans do not call for the interior to be glassed, only "painted" with epoxy. I'm thinking of adding cloth to the interior as well. Now, since I'm a newbie, I don't know how much weight glass adds and whether the weight savings on the lighter wood would completely be negated by the additional glass. I definitely don't want to UNDERbuild, but I've spent a lot of time in boats made of nothing but fiberglass, so the idea of making up for light wood with glass doesn't scare me. But maybe it should! Hahaha . . . That said, yeah, I raised an eyebrow at "ultralight" myself . . . sure . . . in a relative sense, maybe . . .
 
Ben,
as Chuck stated that design uses a Jig to build it. This holds the shape of the panels and then you set them with the epoxy. The Jig is removed after. Sams designs use the panels to get the shape and the builder supports them as he glues it together.
Either way works and many boats have been built of both types.

It looks like a nice straight forward starter project. Build it and see how it suits your hunting. Take pictures and post often. Then build the next boat when you find out what you need\want. Then start thinking about the barn you need for the boats that your going to have.


Take a min and fill out your profile in the section at the top of the page.

The frame does stay in.

As for the barn . . . I've already been daydreaming about where to build the next one. A little sneak box can be built in the garage, but the next one will probably be 18ft, so . . . shed? Rented garage? Barn? Yeah. I like barn. :)

I'll definitely post my progress. This seems like a group of really knowledgable folks!
 
I always thought any boat could be stitch and glued ' and with all the fillets epoxy and tape how much weight are you saving . I am starting a glen L 12' that i want to change to a plaining hull and stitch it


Stitch and glue plans basically give you the shapes of the panels, which when forced edge to edge take the intended shape of the boat. Plywood over frame plans give you the shapes of the frame, and the plywood is forced over the frame and the excess is removed. I believe to "convert" a ply over frame design to stitch and glue you'd have to be wicked good with CAD or do a mock up to get your panel shapes...even then I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) there is no guarantee the shape will work out exact with every design converted. Devlin puts alot of time and experience in his designs, so when it come to boat plans, the old adage "You get what you pay for" still holds true in my book.
 
I'm thinking of adding cloth to the interior as well.

I have interior glass on my canoe, but there are many who are adoment about NOT putting interior glass in boats. You will have issue where the glass works up around the frames.
 
I really don't think you could build it lighter than already spec'ed out. To go lighter you would need more expensive materials and or less mass. Less mass most likely means less strength or very expensive materials. Hardly worth it to save a bit on weight. First boat- build it to plan. A duck boat is subject to wear and tear that other crafts are not. Build it tough enough and not worry about the weight. A light weight boat is useless when it fails.
 
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