Railboat plans

tod osier

tod osier

Well-known member
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I am thinking of building a railboat. I am looking for plans for stitch and glue or that I can easily convert to stitch and glue. This would be as quick and dirty a build as I could stand, but it still has to have some good style and function. I am looking for suggestions.

So far I have found these from Spira, I do not know anything about them (Spira or the plans). The study plans look beautiful, a sexy boat with good dimensions that would be easy to convert to stitch and glue.
NgHjQuj.jpg


Here is what they have shown as the model on the website, obviously not plywood on frames.
lBbJPY8.jpg


Here is a completed boat from their website. There is something funky with the sheer or the flair of the boat in the forward 1/3. I?m thinking that the frames do not spread the hull properly to get the proper flare and this makes the sheer look funky from this angle. Given the study plans, I do not see how the sheer can look that way unless not properly spread.
PADXUdb.jpg


A second example, showing the same issue in my eye (also shows other issues too).
lPloLgE.jpg


Does anyone know of other plans??? I really do not want to mess with my own design. I would love to bang this out over a couple weeks this winter.

The other thing I have for the plan is that I would like to make the boat a 2 part design so that is fits in the truck bed. I would build the boat as designed and then install 2 transoms butting against each other midway down the boat located so that the boat pieces could nest and then cut the boat apart between the transoms.

Kinda this idea.
4kRu9Ta.jpg




Other plans, I have found.

For a model.
2i0RQIq.jpg






CBMM plans.
ubHRwTY.jpg

 
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Eric Patterson said:
Tod

Did you consider Devlin's Duckling 17 as a candidate? It looks to have very similar lines to the railboats you've shown and could be modified to get you closer to your parameters.

https://devlinboat.com/duckling-17/

https://devlinboat.com/...ll-Boats-Monthly.pdf

Eric
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Yes, I would consider it. Most of the rail boats I've seen are dead flat bottomed. I've poled for them in my pirogue (dead flat and no rocker) and our tripping canoe (pretty darn flat and no rocker). The concern with non flat that I have is that occasionally, you get up on a log or a bit of higher ground and then like with a canoe, you run the risk of capsizing tipping on the keel. Also the more flat bottom the larger displacement. The flat bottom vs not is certainly something I'd like comment on from someone with experience.

I believe that the rocker of the rail boat would also be a benefit, especially towards the bow to get up and over stuff.

I love the clean lines of the duckling and that is what I'd be going for with stitch and glue. I think I could do no frames at all other than the poling platform at stern, something for support of the gunners seat and the transoms to split the boat.
 
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I thought the V bottom and not a flat bottom might be the downside to the Duckling for your needs. Maybe someone here will comment on the two types of hulls. I take it you are intending to rail hunt with it and want it best suited for that use. As you are well aware Sam will design boats for a fee when requested. Maybe only a partial fee to modify to flat bottomed. Or maybe easy enough to do on your own. A consult with Sam shouldn't be a problem.

Eric
 
Eric Patterson said:
I thought the V bottom and not a flat bottom might be the downside to the Duckling for your needs. Maybe someone here will comment on the two types of hulls. I take it you are intending to rail hunt with it and want it best suited for that use. As you are well aware Sam will design boats for a fee when requested. Maybe only a partial fee to modify to flat bottomed. Or maybe easy enough to do on your own. A consult with Sam shouldn't be a problem.

Eric
Click to expand...

I might talk to Sam if I can't find what I want. I really don't want a project to design it. I'm up to my ass in projects that need me to think that way.

I want the build to be as simple as possible and the final product to be clean and unadorned. I would push the wood thickness as thin as possible since there are only a couple places that need any strength (poling platform and where the gunner stands) otherwise it could be very thin. If I can get dimensions to loft the sides and bottom, I feel like I can take it from there. Light glass on the outside and just a layer of biax on the inside seams with light glass on the inside floor. Boat would get very little use and be inside the rest of the year.
 
Tod~


I fully understand your "need" to build a railboat. I looked in my books and cannot find other plans. Peter Guthorn has a chapter, though, in "The Sea Bright Skiff and other Jersey Shore Boats". Lots of info about dimensions but no plans that I could find (quickly).



I have never chased these skinny birds but have wondered how a 17-foot canoe might compare - maybe even rigged with a raised pushing platform in the stern.



View attachment Study_for_Rail_Shooting_from_a_Punt.jpg



Jode Hillman clearly has the experience and expertise on this beguiling topic.


BTW: I agree with your concerns about the forward lines on the first vessel. Surely life is too short for ugly boats.....


BTW2: 2-part hull? Make sure to use the Heavy Duty Velcro!



All the best,


SJS





 
Thanks Steve for looking in your resources.

I went yesterday pushing Gus in our 17.5 foot Kevlar Wenonah, it worked fine, absolutely fine. It is a long and wide boat with no (or even reverse) rocker. It is a bit narrow and too tippy to be ideal. The ideal position is to have not only the poler up a little off the water, but for the gunner to be sitting as high as possible or standing (leaning on a seat or post). With the gunner low the visibility isn't great and the many of the shots taken are horizontal or elevated. If the gunner is standing (or nearly so) the shots are all horizontal or down, which is much safer and allows for a wider range of shooting. A high flush is 3 or 4 feet, so standing puts many of the shots level or down.

I'll bug Jode if he doesn't check in here.

I like the velcro option!




Steve Sanford said:
Tod~


I fully understand your "need" to build a railboat. I looked in my books and cannot find other plans. Peter Guthorn has a chapter, though, in "The Sea Bright Skiff and other Jersey Shore Boats". Lots of info about dimensions but no plans that I could find (quickly).



I have never chased these skinny birds but have wondered how a 17-foot canoe might compare - maybe even rigged with a raised pushing platform in the stern.







Jode Hillman clearly has the experience and expertise on this beguiling topic.


BTW: I agree with your concerns about the forward lines on the first vessel. Surely life is too short for ugly boats.....


BTW2: 2-part hull? Make sure to use the Heavy Duty Velcro!



All the best,


SJS




Click to expand...
 
Huntindave McCann said:
If I were Gus, I'd be worried about the source of the propulsion.
Click to expand...

I only hit him in the head with the pole once by accident yesterday.
 
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Huntindave McCann said:
tod osier said:
Huntindave McCann said:
If I were Gus, I'd be worried about the source of the propulsion.
Click to expand...

I only hit him in the head with the pole once by accident yesterday.
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"by accident",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Okaaaaay [pirate]
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There is the very real risk of an accidental strike to the head a la a billiard ball (head) and pool cue (pole) that would for sure leave a mark. I more gently whacked him with a side strike. I was just glad I didn't dump the 2 of us into 12 feet of water crossing a deep channel.
 
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Tod,
Have you considered a pirogue? Simple to build and you can make it a little wider and/or longer to suit your needs. I did a build from Uncle John's plans. Very easy, and inexpensive.You can even put a square on it. We use it in the summer to bow fish for carp. One guy stands in the front and the other push poles from the back. Works great. http://www.unclejohns.com/boat/default.htm

View attachment P3.jpg
 
Todd, not to put too fine a point on it but that's pretty much just a cheap ass pirogue. It would have no stability were it used as a railbird skiff. Check out the plans from the Independence Seaport in Philadelphia. Try to take the lines off these and perhaps accommodate it to stitch and glue. I have a free link somewhere that gives the table of offsets for a Maurice River skiff. I will look and see if I can find it

As a matter of fact building a skiff is not extremely difficult even plank on frame. But these boats generally feature curvature bow to stern as well as port to starboard. Not something easily achieved with plywood.

I found several, and everyone has been slightly different. But they all have been very effective. My current 16' x 42" boat although on the large size is actually much easier to pole than some of the skinnier version I have a previously
Current boat
View attachment 1C875E75-9F91-46A0-A189-C3FD87446A0F.jpeg


Cohansey skiff. This boat was very basic shape and effective. 13' you can see how simple in my before pics from the restoration thread. . Rail skiffs are wider at the stern to accommodate the weight of the pusher on deck.

View attachment 04E187DA-A2C7-4360-8352-07BC7EE164B2.jpeg

The classic Maurice river skiff link
https://cumauriceriver.org/downjersey/maritime/images/Mari3.pdf




View attachment F9DCA54D-56D2-413A-8382-33589C97F1E7.jpeg

They are a great bird to chase and we are in the prime of the season right now.

From this week.
View attachment 87D4C718-4185-43A1-8FAE-9960948D6F4D.jpeg
 
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zane Every said:
Tod, Have you considered a pirogue? Simple to build and you can make it a little wider and/or longer to suit your needs. I did a build from Uncle John's plans. Very easy, and inexpensive.You can even put a square on it. We use it in the summer to bow fish for carp. One guy stands in the front and the other push poles from the back. Works great. http://www.unclejohns.com/boat/default.htm
Click to expand...



I have a pirogue and I have one that I've used. Id like something wider, with more rocker and less freeboard to catch the wind. If I had to do it from scratch, yes, that is basically where I'd start. I don't think ill build if there isn't a great set of plans, I'm just not that interested.
 
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Thanks Jode, Good to see you have been getting out. We had a nice day yesterday.

FTwwpkH.jpg


hB9ojav.jpg


HtU8TCK.jpg



Thanks for the pics and commentary. In looking at your refirb photos, it looks like that the boat is dead flat bottomed, side to side, but has some nice rocker. Did it pole noticeably worse than boats that were not flat bottomed?


The plans that I posted pics of above are apparently pulled off the CBMM plans (flat bottomed rail skiff), it is 16' with 3' beam. What width would you say is ideal?












 
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The cohansey skiff ( all OD paint) is dead flat bottom port to starboard. It is great in emergent rice beds, however it was almost like Velcro when going through spartina. I guess it depends what your primary vegetation type is.
My ideal would be about 38" . The few inches adds a ton of stability, also how much flare the sides have account for that as well. ( initial vs overall )

That looks like a pretty Virginia in the mix! A prize bird whenever taken.
 
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jode hillman said:
The cohansey skiff ( all OD paint) is dead flat bottom port to starboard. It is great in emergent rice beds, however it was almost like Velcro when going through spartina. I guess it depends what your primary vegetation type is.
My ideal would be about 38" . The few inches adds a ton of stability, also how much flare the sides have account for that as well. ( initial vs overall )

That looks like a pretty Virginia in the mix! A price bird whenever taken.
Click to expand...

Great information! Thanks. Wind is a big factor, so low profile would be a nice addition.

I'm hoping to get Gus out again this week, possibly we will get some extra water from Teddy coming by.
 
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