Rusty Treasure

[Mike]

My dad found his 1968 12 Guage H&R Topper Model 158 rusting away in a corner. He grabbed it and passed it on to me. He says that if he ever had a high flying goose come by, he'd pull it out and take a poke at it. I replied by calling him a skybuster. He cocked his head sideways and was trying to figure out if that was a compliment or not........ not. Any how, I looked on the internet for any info I could find on it and have a few unanswered questions. The patent # on the side of the receiver is stamped AE U.S. PAT.2876576. I learned that the AE dictates that this gun was made in 1968. The top of the barrel is stamped with a circled P 12 GA 2 3/4" FULL. There is a very small T stamped in front of the block under the forearm. I measured the total barrel length and it is 36". Is that how you determine the barrel length??? The overall gun length is almost 52". Also, can I shoot steel loads out of this gun? This thing is very rusty and may want to have it stripped and refinished or dipped so I can use it some day. Also considering taking it to turkey shoots and/or using it as a dedicated trap gun. Bore is still shiney, locks up real tight and seems to be functioning well. Any suggestions or info would be great. Thanks.....

 

[Chuck J]

Mike

Nice find. Reminds me a lot of the gun we pulled out of the woodshed after Grandma died. I can't recall the brand right now, but it was originally a 38" full choke barrel. Dad said Grandpa got tired of missing due to too tight of a pattern and cut off 3 inches (of choked barrel) so it is now a 35" cylinder bore. A friend of Dad's cleaned it up and it is now a wall ornament. We've never shot ours, but to me, if you want to shoot yours, I think it would be cheap insurance to have a good gunsmith look it over first if you have ANY doubt about the safety of the weapon. As far as shooting steel through it, "they" used to say not to shoot steel through full chokes, or older barrels, but I have heard some singing a different toon in recient years. Turkey might be a better use for it, running copper plated lead through it, as well as it is (even more so than waterfowling) a first shot, best shot sport. Most singles are quite light, which is a blessing to carry, but not always to fire...

Best
Chuck

 

[Geo Kaiser]

At one time a friend had a single shot that looked like that.
It was a 10 ga. though, I fired it once..... and only once,
it kicked like a mule.
but I see yours is for 2 3/4 inch only so it should be bearable

 

[Tom Roberts]

Years ago I was participating in an Audubon Society bird count on Sequoyah National Wildlife Refuge. My party stopped at a boat ramp to look for eagles and laying on the ground off to the side of the ramp was the same kind of shotgun as yours. I loaded it up and took it with me and decided at the end of the day I would go by the refuge headquarters which was several miles away and see if anyone had reported a missing gun. I thought for sure I had myself a free shotgun. But sure enough when I got there a much distressed gentleman had just arrived and was enquiring about his "goose gun". I reluctantly relinquished my prize.

 

[Frank Gostomski]

Mike,

My uncle is a gunsmith and I'll see him this weekend for the early muzzleloader season in Maryland. He can often look these guns up to get an idea of the manufacture process, and thus the probable safety of using it. I'll take your info with me and see what he says...

BTW, my grandfather had one like that with a 42" barrel that we called the Long Tom. Not sure if that was our name or the gun's real name. Neat old guns.

Frank

 

[Ed L.]

Pretty cool gun. Neat wall hanger if nothing else. H&R has had quite a history. The Topper was offered in 12, 16, 20 and 410. The Pardner model added 10ga. to the list. My first gun was a 1963 Pardner model in 20ga. that looked identical to yours. I'll never forget that gun. It was my birthday present when I was 8. The first shell I shot out of it split my nose wide open when I held it to close and the hammer got me. Man that gun had some kick when you weighed in at 65lbs! Finally had to give that gun up when the pot metal hammer spring broke. I graduated to a Springfield pump when I was 13 but I used that gun on the trap line all through highschool.

 

[TimJ]

A 1968 H&R isn't really that old of a gun in the world of older guns. The main thing I'd be worried about are pits in the barrel that could weaken it.
I shoot smaller steel out of full choked older guns but that is a personal choice each gun owner needs to look into and decide on their own. What happens to a barrel if something goes wrong is not catastrophic. Normally you might see a slight ring bulge at the choke (reason not to use steel in older tightly choked SXSs) and for the most part these are still safe to shoot. Barrels splitting are from a blockage or bad pitting in an area where the pressure is high. A 1968 gun was designed for today's pressures if it is still sound.

I personally would not be taking it out duck hunting. I've never liked how H&R shotguns kick. The rifles I like but wing shooting with the shotguns kills my head. I think Chuck's idea to use it for turkey hunting is the best use for it. The longer barrel isn't that bad of a thing because being a single shot it has a much shorter receiver. Might make a nice longer range squirrel shotgun too.

Heck I think I would brown the barrel, it's almost there now, if it is sound and shoot black powder loads from it. It would be fun.

Tim

 

[Dani]

The P in a circle is probably their proof mark

I looked through all the literature we have on H&R but couldn't find anything about whether it's rated for Steel shot or not. H&R is now made at the Remington plant in Illion, so perhaps someone there could tell you.

The way we determine barrel length is to close the bolt/gun stick a measuring rod down the barrel....you could do it with a dowel and mark the dowel then measure that length.

Dani

 

[Chuck J]

BTW, my grandfather had one like that with a 42" barrel that we called the Long Tom. Not sure if that was our name or the gun's real name. Neat old guns.

Frank

I think that is what my Grandpa's was, a Long Tom. Engraved on the reciever. I think my Dad told me Grandpa cut off 3", but it was cut off long before I was born, might have been longer.

Chuck

 

[Carl]

Lots of memories in most single barrels......
I grew up shooting my Dad's Ithaca M66 SuperSingle, the "lever-action" single barrel.
30" Full choke barrel that would absolutely blow the X out at Turkey Shoots.
Shot my first duck with it, a GW Teal. Lots of squirrels too.
I killed one real turkey with it. Put 24 No 4s in the head and neck at 20 yards. Bird never knew what hit him.

 

[Frank Gostomski]

Chuck...that's pretty funny. And there's no telling if I'm right about the barrel length. You spend enough time telling people that something is longer than it really is, and eventually you start to believe it!

 

[Doug C]

So long as it is not a damascus or twist barrel you should be fine to shoot modern powders out of that gun. The only thing Ive heard negative about steel and older, tight fixed chokes is that over time it can open the size of the choke. A smaller shot would be less harmful to the choke when shooting steel.

 

[Mike]

Thanks for the help everyone. I've been pretty sporatic with my interaction on any forums lately and thought this would be something worth kicking around the site. Though I don't post much, it's rare that I don't log on and read thru at least once a day.

Heck I think I would brown the barrel, it's almost there now Tim

Browned??? I'm unfamiliar with that.


Not sure what I want to do with it. It's value is only semi-sentimental. I'll be 40 next summer and this is the first that I've ever seen it. I have all my father's other guns that we've hunted with together. Those I would never consider altering in any way. However, this gun is different. I envision this gun at a local turkey or trap shoot.

 

[TimJ]

Thanks for the help everyone. I've been pretty sporatic with my interaction on any forums lately and thought this would be something worth kicking around the site. Though I don't post much, it's rare that I don't log on and read thru at least once a day.

Heck I think I would brown the barrel, it's almost there now Tim

Browned??? I'm unfamiliar with that.
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Browning is sort of like rust bluing but the mental ends up brown instead of black or blue. I'm not all up on it but from what I understand it is rust that is smoothed and preserved so it is no longer active. It is used a lot on muzzleloaders and does make a nice less flashy finish.

 

[jehler]

I would avoid the steel shot out of a full choke, you can get away with it in chokes up to mod with smaller shot and slower speeds but a full will definately cause issues. the steel shot will "bridge" and instead of deforming like lead would it will cause bulging and possibly unsafe pressures. there are a lot of alternatives, classic doubles, itx, nice shot, bismuth to name a few

 

[Ray]

I have a similar rifle in 30-30, now 30-30AI, and love it. I never liked my 20g shotgun version for its kick. One of only two guns I was glad to sell off.

Get the gun cleaned, and then refinished and use Kent tungsten matrix shot in it, or some other enviro metal offering that is suitable for older pre-steel barrels. You are not going to be shooting it a lot so shooting the $3/shell stuff won't hurt that bad.