Scaup considerations and questions

Dave Archer

New member
“How many boats do you need,” asked the wife, gently reminding me of our new financial realities. I have been building river prams and duck boats all my life, but retirement has brought new challenges to a beloved pastime. Factor in four shoulder operations, and I now know that the 16-foot, welded, aluminum duck boat that I built is too heavy with its 35hp Mud Buddy. Worse than the weight is that it is a flat-bottom river sled, and when it gets stuck in the mud, I am in trouble. With our plans to move back to Montana, the wife then asked me if I could sell the bass skiff and duck boat and find one boat for fishing and hunting.

It was a good suggestion, and an opportunity at 66 to build one last boat. (I just finished a 14-foot scull boat from a one-off, male plug, and last year I finished a layout boat similar to the Mighty Layout Boys boat.) I followed the links from Devlin’s site to Eric Patterson’s wonderful article on building a Scaup. In the past, I have designed my own boats, but this time I will buy Devlin’s plans for the Scaup, as the safety and the aesthetics of the design really appeal to me. Besides, building a plug is expensive and time consuming.

If any one reading this is a Scaup owner, I hope that you can answer some of my questions.
Question 1: In the past I had a near drowning incident from a boating mistake that I made. I will not elaborate because it was very stupid. I was 60 and I learned that cold water and an old, weaker body will more than likely lead to my death if I am ever stupid again. I like the idea of all the floatation chambers, and I like Eric’s post thoughts of adding floatation under the floor. Can this boat really handle 2 to 3 foot waves? Would raising the cockpit height be prudent? (What is the height from the waterline to the cockpit combing?)

Question 2: I once built a 14-foot duck boat with a whale-back upper piece. I had metal brackets with oar locks extending from the cockpit out to the edge of the sheer line. If the outboard failed, would the Scaup fully loaded be too heavy to row if I added a similar bracket? I am thinking not so much of making progress but in keeping the boat into the wind and waves should I lose power. (Yes, I now have more than a healthy respect for the elements and the possibility of bad luck in bad weather.)

Question 3: I have a 24-volt Minncota trolling motor. I was thinking of modifying the deck so that it would have a flat section on the top to mount this trolling motor during the summer when I fish for bass and trout. For those of you who cross open, icy water, what do you do for a back-up motor?

Question 4: Gator-Trax boats has a model with a lower stern deck behind the raised cockpit combing. The motor is attached with a raised motor mount piece at the end of the stern on this lower deck. The lower back deck allows a hunter to have a landing platform, just above the waterline, which allows him to bring his dog on board with little lifting. Given my weak shoulders, I am really concerned about getting my dog in the boat. Now, imagine the recessed motor well on the Scaup. Couldn’t the back end be dropped flat so that I would have a place on either side that I could get my dog on board easier. Eric Patterson said that the recessed well pushed water up into the boat, which necessitated adding a shim to raise the motor. Perhaps this lowered deck would roll water off rather than pushing it up.

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or comments, and yes, I am open to criticism or challenge on the modified deck change. I hope to hear from you Scaup owners and builders because I fell in love with this boat after seeing Eric’s how-to article.

Sincerely,
David Archer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
 
As a former Scaup owner here is my comments/thoughts.

1) I had my out in 3' waves only a couple of times, boat handled it well, but there was certainly a pucker factor. If that is typical conditions, I would opt for either higher sides or a different boat.

2) You could probably row it, but how long would your shoulder last?

3) Had the Scaup for two season, never had a back up motor. I hunted the Green Bay of Lake MI, but never straide too far from shore.

4) The boat as designed sits pretty low in the water, I didn't really have any trouble getting the dog in and out.

Hope that helps.
 
Andrew... I ask this cuz if I had to go with 1 boat, I think it I would go with the Scoup... Is the pucker factor are real safe concern.. or just getting use to the high seas/low freeboard?

I had my BBII in 2.5' following seas... is was certainly unnerving at first...
 
Andrew and Phil, thanks for the reaction. No, I don't imagine that I will face 2-3 foot waves, as I will avoid those forecasts. However, a couple of times, years ago, I was returning from a hunt on Flathead Lake in Montana and experienced two to three foot waves with two sons on board. I followed the shoreline very close. Now I tell my wife I will head for shore if necessary. I wonder about raising the cockpit combing and rounding the bow of the cockpit, or bringing it to a vee to shed water from a wave. Unlike the rough elements you guys experience on big water, my "pucker" moments have stayed with me. Although I have more pulling power (rowing) than lifting, I think the rowing situation would probably be impractical. I hate getting weaker with age!
 
Andrew and Phil, thanks for the reaction. No, I don't imagine that I will face 2-3 foot waves, as I will avoid those forecasts. However, a couple of times, years ago, I was returning from a hunt on Flathead Lake in Montana and experienced two to three foot waves with two sons on board. I followed the shoreline very close. Now I tell my wife I will head for shore if necessary. I wonder about raising the cockpit combing and rounding the bow of the cockpit, or bringing it to a vee to shed water from a wave. Unlike the rough elements you guys experience on big water, my "pucker" moments have stayed with me. Although I have more pulling power (rowing) than lifting, I think the rowing situation would probably be impractical. I hate getting weaker with age!
Are you moving to the Flathead? I live and work in Bigfork and have hunted the lake many-many times. I was a charter boat captain in Hawaii for many years, I have been in 35 foot seas in my 33' sailboat and driving a small boat in a storm on Flathead Lake is as scary as it gets.

I agonized over building a Scaup versus the higher freeboard Devlin Garveys for moths, years actually. It was Dave Clark who talked me into the Cackler. He asked if I hunted out of the boat, if I sat on a seat or the floor of the boat? I said I hate sitting on the floor and prefer to stand up to shoot. He pointed out that if that was the case a boat blind would have to cover me in that sitting hight position anyway, so there was really no advantage to the lower freeboard of a Scaup. I built the larger boat and have been super happy with it, as are my dogs.

PM me for my phone number if you want, I have lots of experience hunting NW Montana lakes, rivers and ponds and I would be happy to share further thoughts on duck boats for our area.

John
 
John, I can't believe someone responded from Big Fork! My house, soon to be home again, is in Florence. My wife's sister has a ranch in Ronan so we are eager to return to Montana. I used to hunt the East Bay of Flathead Lake for about 20 years. I used a scull boat in the early season and a 14' fiberglass, flat-bottom boat later in the season. When the water dropped and the lake started freezing along the shore, I would motor from Polson. Yes, I had some scary outings, but I hugged the shoreline. I like sitting down in a low-profile boat. Naturally, I am limited in my ability to rotate or swing, but I am convinced too many large profile boats educate the birds far too early in the season. I like the slight vee in the hull on the Scaup. Still, I am thinking of slightly raising the combing. I would very much like to talk to you. I am not sure how to use the private message, but will check it out because I really would enjoy talking to you. I had planned on coming up and hunting this month, but one of my donkeys got lame, and we are not sure what his chances are. I have an extensive web site on Montana fishing at www.glaciertoyellowstone.com. Just add dave@ to my site and you can reach me by email. I wish Devlin's site would give a few more measurements so it would be easier to compare. I go over and over his duck boats, but I will check out the cackler again.

One final note. I have an aluminum mig welder so I will also be building a one-man, circular blind that I could put up in the middle of the cockpit so that I could sit when conditions warrant, especially when I have good shoreline cover. Sure wish I had some hunts like the guys that post on this site. I haven't bagged a limit for a couple of years, but that also says something about my shooting.
 
I have nothing to add from a boat standpoint, but I have friends on Flathead and hunted East Bay last year. What a great lake with lots of variety! I would love to live up there.
 
Phil, I didn't take any water over the boat, so probably more me than the boat, but I did sell the Scaup and build something with much higher sides.
 
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