Starting another old machine restoration (NDR)

Eric Patterson

Eric Patterson

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Staff member
and thought I'd share this one. It's a Powermatic 30 Belt/Disk sander and is in a lot better shape than the other restos I've done. Drove to Cincinnati on Monday and picked it up and started the tear down. Luckily Jeff Smith had a bearing puller so we were able to get the 40 year old pulleys and shaft apart. They were STUCK HARD but a little coaxing and the right tool did the job. So far it looks mostly like all it will need is new bearings, the belt guard welded where the belt cut though, stripping and painting. I'm going to tinker with this over Christmas vacation when I'm not hunting and with a little luck will get it painted in the next month or so. With this machine my shop is a full capacity. I'm out of room. Time to kick Michelle's car out of the garage or build me a shop. Sadly they both require her approval and I've not read anything in the news about hell freezing over.









p.s. NDR is Not Duck Related for anyone who doesn't know.
 
Hey Beavis You Said.....​
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STUCK HARD
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right tool did the job​
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Anyways, lack of sleep this week I blame. Very nice looking machine for sure, Every guy needs an SHOP I think at least 30x120 would be good with concrete floor, bed, shower, kitchen lol.What you do is just loose the garage door remote from HER car and tell her you cant get a new one and just screw the door shut. Problem solved. Have fun with the restore Eric.
 
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Nice find Eric......What's the belt size? Disc diameter? I had an older Rockwell for years that i sold when I bought my Drum sander. I wish now I would of kept it as the drum sander is a pretty uni purpose machine, whereas tons of shapes can be made on the combo's
 
It is good to modify the space the best you can and not have those cold feet accidently kick you out of bed at night. However, the garage would probably be more comfortable than a dog house.



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Dave

30x120??? That would be nice but I'm not sure I could get a building permit for that in my neighborhood. Concrete floor is okay, but I want pine since it does little damage when you drop tools like chisels or gauges. Seems like I'm always dropping stuff.

Jode

It uses a 6x48 belt and a 12" disk. I've been using a 10" disk on my tablesaw but it's a pain to swap with the blade and spins so fast it burns whatever it touches. The new acquisition is just the right speed and not too terribly big.
 
Lee

So far I've completed the bathroom vanities and have a good start on all the kitchen cabinets. Sitting in my garage are completed stiles and rails for the doors (loved using the powermatic 26 shaper and restored Parks planer to make them) and have started making the center panels. We're talking 40+ doors so it's going to take a while. I planned to finish the project before hunting season but decided there was no reason to kill myself in the process and Michelle agreed. It is the highest priority project after duck season ends and I expect to be done by the time Summer rolls around. But to answer your question I don't need just one more tool, I need a whole shop full, not the shop I have now but a much bigger one :) I do love restoring old machines and like splitting my time between making sawdust and making grime.
 
Eric,

I think you will really like this machine when you get up and running again.

You mentioned that the belt had cut thru the guard. This no doubt being the result of the belt not running in the center of the pulleys. Most folks think these are flat pulleys which they are not. Both pulleys when new, will have a slight crown to them, the diameter at the center of the pulley is larger than the diameter near the ends of the pulley. This crown helps with the tracking of the belt. The belt will tend to climb to the larger diameter, which being in the center, will tend to keep the belt in the center. Over time the crown will wear and you may find that your pulleys are dead flat.

In a dead flat condition it will be extremely hard to keep the belt tracking true. You will be able to tweak the adjustment screw just so, and it will run fine,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, for a awhile. Then while sanding ( putting a load on the belt) it will wander quickly to the side rubbing on the guard. You can re-adjust it but soon it will wander off again.

As long as you have the machine disassembled, place the pulleys on a flat surface to check for the proper crown. I can't tell you just how much there should be off the top of my head but it doesn't take much. Too much of a crown isn't a good thing either. I will look to see if I can find and give you some hard numbers to go by, but you might ask about it on the sites you've mentioned before when rebuilding equipment.
 
Eric,

Where do you find these things! That's in amazing shape for the age. Looks just like the one I used in shop class some 30 years ago. You and Norm Abram of the New Yankee Workshop are my idols.

Take care,

Ed L.
 
Dave

You sir are BALLS ON! Crown on the pulleys IS what makes the belt track properly and you described it to a tee. You've spent some time around one of these guys for sure. The crown on the pulleys is no different than the crown on a bandsaw's wheels. I put a straightedge on the pulleys, which are actually two identical halves per each pulley(if you look close in the pic you can see my registration lines for reassembly), and the crown is worn. I didn't think to put a board on it when the guy demo'd to see if the belt wondered like you accurately described happens. I did research it a bit at owwm.org and the incomparable Bob Vaughan states the height of the crown is less important than making sure it's symmetric. Bob recommended putting crown back by taking a belt and cutting a 1" wide strip from the belt and running it to drive the idler pulley while using a sanding block to redefine the crown. Another fella says he uses duck tape on the center of the pulleys to create crown. I think one of those two methods will work for me should I need it. Any info you might have on the appropriate amount of crown would be appreciated.

Thanks for the sage advice.
 
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Ed

Thanks for the compliment but I'm hardly in Norm's league.

To find machines for my shop I scan the classifieds for items and auctions, search ebay, craigslist, and numerous government auction sites. I hit estate sales too hoping to find something. Ebay is machine rich but the good deals are hard to come by because so many eyes look there. Craigslist has some real bargains but you usually are working long distance and a lot of sellers are leary of peopel in other states due to scams. The sander I bought was on Ebay but nobody bid on it due to starting price. While the auction was active I asked the seller for his phone # and called him. When it didn't go I called him again and we worked out a deal good for both of us. I'd been looking for that machine for some time but they were either too far away or missing parts, like the beltguard which you will probably never find a loose one, you wouldn't want to do without, and would be real expensive to have a shop make just one. So when this one showed up 6 1/2 hours away I worked it the best I could and came out on top.
 
Looks like you have a nice project to do. I've recently been bit by the old tool bug myself, and have a mentor in the hobby who has a well equipted shop full of vintage machinery. Cant beat the price on a lot of it! I'd like to eventually a few Kalamazoo tools.
 
Sir, if you find that the crown needs a little help I have been successful by adding a little masking tape in the center. I have worn out several Rockwells of that desogn. I finally got fed up with the split pully thing and made new single piece pullys out of 3/8 walled tubing that I put ends in. It made a much better machine out of an already good machine.

Mark
 
Paul

From what I've seen Michigan is a pretty target rich environment. I bet there are plent of good deals out there on vintage hand tools and machinery. Anything in particular you are looking for?
 
Mark

I've heard your tape idea several times now. As simple and cheap as it is it will be my first attempt at adding crown should I need it. Your idea for new pulleys will be something to consider if all else fails but the one problem I have is no metal lathe or way of making them and machine shop rates are pretty high. It's a good thing Huntindave doesn't live nearby or he'd never get any rest from all the machining favors I'd ask of him.
 
So far nothing particular. Eventually I'd like to have a fully equiped shop of vintage stuff, but havent prioritized. I'm waiting for the deals that I cant refuse to come along. The guy thats showing me the ropes strategy is wait until a shop upgrades to modern machinery and offer to get the old one out of the there for them. Many places are happy to just get stuff out of the way he said, especially with old metal working tools. I agree that I am fortunate to live where I do in regards to opportunities. Anything on your want list I can keep an eye out for?
 
Paul

My shop is at full capacity, make that over capacity. However I would like to upgrade to a 12 or 16" jointer (Moak, Oliver, Northfield, Newman, etc.) and a 16 or 18" planer (Powermatic). If I could find a really sweet deal I'd probably get a little mini storage somewhere and save them until the day comes I get a dedicated shop. Might be many years away but the market is so good right now for old machinery it probably would be a good investment. Who knows what the availability will be down the road. These things are leaving factories and scattering to the wind. Some of them are even ending up in China to be used in pattern shops so they can make crappy machinery and ship it to us. Not a good trade.
 
Eric, You need to make friends with a local friendly machinist - someone that only owns a lathe or a mill. Good affordable lath and mill work is available. You have to do all of the thinking and procureing and blanking out so that all you are asking for is a a lathe cut or a mill cut. It is all of that other stuff that costs the money. That's why lathes and mills are so neat. They will do a lot of things quickly and efficiently and for what they do, economically. Good luck.

Mark
 
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