Great South Bay Scooter

Great South Bay Scooter

Eric Patterson

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Eric Patterson submitted a new resource:

Great South Bay Scooter - Great South Bay Scooter from Popular Mechanics

Great South Bay Scooter from Popular Mechanics publication 23 Boats You Can Build 1950. Click the orange "Download" button to save the plans in their entirety in pdf format. The More Information button will take you to the full volume on the Internet Archive website.

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Eric Patterson submitted a new resource:

Great South Bay Scooter - Great South Bay Scooter from Popular Mechanics



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Good morning, Eric~

NOW you're talking! Great article about my favorite vessel. It shows, of course, the "yacht" version, designed for racing and not gunning (nor clamming nor eeling et cetera). The Scooters developed by baymen (Wilbur Corwin in late 1800s on Bellport Bay) were narrower and usually had more crown in the deck. Sailing rigs were smaller and stowable. Racing Scooters had 4 runners on their bottoms - with a pair (port and starboard) at the turn of the bilge for heeling - but the "workboats" had just a pair on the flat sections of their bottoms.

I have spoken of my own Scooter here numerous times over the years: https://stevenjaysanford.com/great-south-bay-scooter/

I do not think I have posted this photo here, however. It was sent to me last year by a Coast Guard historian. It shows 2 Scooters in Fire Island Inlet in 1946. The smaller Scooter is now the TED SANFORD. The Coast Guard used Scooters for ice work throughout the winters - but abandoned them in favor of helicopters around 1954. I was born in '53 - and our house was just out of the photo - about 1000 feet to the right (West).

Scooter - Tim Dring - TAFireIsMLB1mod.jpg

All the best,

SJS
 
Steve

Fantastic photo. The ice looks a bit broken and difficult to traverse. I think I'd want something to stand on instead of it too.

You mentioned your dad rescued it from the Coast Guard. Was this a tool the Coast Guard borrowed from hunters? Or were these boats discovered by hunters after seeing them used by the Coast Guard?

Yes, the plans I included are not the hunting version but given the uniqueness and kinship I included them in the duck boat Resources section. I edited the entry to direct people to your site which I suppose is probably the best source of information on them anywhere, and includes the only known set of offsets. By the way, the documentation of the process you used to gather the offsets and create drawings is fantastic.
 
Steve

Fantastic photo. The ice looks a bit broken and difficult to traverse. I think I'd want something to stand on instead of it too.

You mentioned your dad rescued it from the Coast Guard. Was this a tool the Coast Guard borrowed from hunters? Or were these boats discovered by hunters after seeing them used by the Coast Guard?

Yes, the plans I included are not the hunting version but given the uniqueness and kinship I included them in the duck boat Resources section. I edited the entry to direct people to your site which I suppose is probably the best source of information on them anywhere, and includes the only known set of offsets. By the way, the documentation of the process you used to gather the offsets and create drawings is fantastic.
Good morning, Eric~

As I understand it, the Scooter was first developed for baymen to negotiate the patchwork of hard ice, soft ice and open water that is so common on Great South Bay winters. The baymen were primarily in pursuit of clams and eels - and also ducks, geese and Brant - for the market and used a variety of flat-bottomed skiffs, often with a pair of iron runners, to be dragged or piked over the ice. The originator (see more below) was Capt. Wilbur R. Corwin. I know he was a duck guide. What made the Scooter different from simpler vessels was shape of the bottom shape and the runners that enabled it to sail over the ice, "safely" enter air holes (patches of open water, and then "scoot" right back up onto the ice whilst under sail. The baymen's rigs were relatively small and could be struck and laid on the deck when the baymen got to work - clamming, eeling or gunning.

I am not sure if Wilbur R. (as distinct from his son Wilbur A.) was in the Coast Guard - or, more correctly, the Life Saving Service back in his day. There was a "life-saving station" right near his "duck lodge". I imagine there was informal use of Scooters by the LIS/USCG. My Holy Grail would be to find the documentation of the Coast Guard ordering a batch of Scooters from Benjamin Hallock or other known builders. In any even, they were developed for baymen and later adopted by the Coast Guard.

Here is an excerpt from a narrative I wrote for the Pattersquash Centennial last March at our LI Decoy Collectors Show:

Many Scooters were fitted with a small sailing rig to sail across the ice – then through the water – then back up onto the ice. It is this unique capability that gave the Scooter its name. The first was built by Capt. Wilbur R. Corwin in Bellport – with help from Richard B. Hamel - in 1874 or so. The local blacksmith, Joseph Shaw, made the metal runners – but Wilbur R. developed the bevel and rocker in the wooden portion of the ice runners that gave it the ability to sail well – steered with the jib in the later racing Scooters.

The fantail served a couple of important purposes. Although it undoubtedly hides better than a traditional plumb transom – especially from oncoming Broadbill and Redheads when hunting the bay, anchored bow and stern in open water – its more important function was in the ice. When hunting in the ice, the gunner typically wanted to get to some open water – known as an “air hole” – where ducks and geese could find food. To get there, the gunner could drag or sail or “pike” with a special pole. Ice on tidal waters varies markedly in thickness and strength. Sometimes a Scooter would drop down through softer ice - and sometimes it was easier to back out than it was to continue on forward. In such instances, the fantail – rounded and above the waterline – would enable the gunner to get back up on the ice by going in “reverse”. (He would propel the vessel in the chosen direction with either a pike pole or a small grapnel anchor on 40-or-so feet of line – to “kedge” back onto the ice.


I restored the TED SANFORD about 10 years ago.

sm 8 - Bow on with grapnel and stool in rack.jpg

I have yet to hunt it in its refreshed condition. With our warmer winters, Great South Bay seldom has the ice cover that spurred the development of the Scooter. I keep hoping that a January will provide what I need to once again get on the ice and drag and pike my way out to an air hole - whilst this old body can still do the work. Once that is accomplished, my next task will be to find a permanent home for this bit of history.

All the best,

SJS
 
Good morning, Eric~

NOW you're talking! Great article about my favorite vessel. It shows, of course, the "yacht" version, designed for racing and not gunning (nor clamming nor eeling et cetera). The Scooters developed by baymen (Wilbur Corwin in late 1800s on Bellport Bay) were narrower and usually had more crown in the deck. Sailing rigs were smaller and stowable. Racing Scooters had 4 runners on their bottoms - with a pair (port and starboard) at the turn of the bilge for heeling - but the "workboats" had just a pair on the flat sections of their bottoms.

I have spoken of my own Scooter here numerous times over the years: https://stevenjaysanford.com/great-south-bay-scooter/

I do not think I have posted this photo here, however. It was sent to me last year by a Coast Guard historian. It shows 2 Scooters in Fire Island Inlet in 1946. The smaller Scooter is now the TED SANFORD. The Coast Guard used Scooters for ice work throughout the winters - but abandoned them in favor of helicopters around 1954. I was born in '53 - and our house was just out of the photo - about 1000 feet to the right (West).

View attachment 58203

All the best,

SJS
Steve, cool pictures of the station and the light house. We had a scooter for broadbill gunning, remember the bonus season for broadbill? HUNTED shinniecock and mecox putting out 100,s of decoys.
 
Steve

I hope the ice returns and you get the opportunity to gun the boat in the conditions it was designed for. You've obviously done a lot of research on the subject, in addition to the restoration, but I wouldn't be surprised if in a real-world situation you discover something else about the design. Perhaps this year will be the year and if so I look forward to your report.
 
Good morning, Eric~

As I understand it, the Scooter was first developed for baymen to negotiate the patchwork of hard ice, soft ice and open water that is so common on Great South Bay winters. The baymen were primarily in pursuit of clams and eels - and also ducks, geese and Brant - for the market and used a variety of flat-bottomed skiffs, often with a pair of iron runners, to be dragged or piked over the ice. The originator (see more below) was Capt. Wilbur R. Corwin. I know he was a duck guide. What made the Scooter different from simpler vessels was shape of the bottom shape and the runners that enabled it to sail over the ice, "safely" enter air holes (patches of open water, and then "scoot" right back up onto the ice whilst under sail. The baymen's rigs were relatively small and could be struck and laid on the deck when the baymen got to work - clamming, eeling or gunning.

I am not sure if Wilbur R. (as distinct from his son Wilbur A.) was in the Coast Guard - or, more correctly, the Life Saving Service back in his day. There was a "life-saving station" right near his "duck lodge". I imagine there was informal use of Scooters by the LIS/USCG. My Holy Grail would be to find the documentation of the Coast Guard ordering a batch of Scooters from Benjamin Hallock or other known builders. In any even, they were developed for baymen and later adopted by the Coast Guard.

Here is an excerpt from a narrative I wrote for the Pattersquash Centennial last March at our LI Decoy Collectors Show:

Many Scooters were fitted with a small sailing rig to sail across the ice – then through the water – then back up onto the ice. It is this unique capability that gave the Scooter its name. The first was built by Capt. Wilbur R. Corwin in Bellport – with help from Richard B. Hamel - in 1874 or so. The local blacksmith, Joseph Shaw, made the metal runners – but Wilbur R. developed the bevel and rocker in the wooden portion of the ice runners that gave it the ability to sail well – steered with the jib in the later racing Scooters.

The fantail served a couple of important purposes. Although it undoubtedly hides better than a traditional plumb transom – especially from oncoming Broadbill and Redheads when hunting the bay, anchored bow and stern in open water – its more important function was in the ice. When hunting in the ice, the gunner typically wanted to get to some open water – known as an “air hole” – where ducks and geese could find food. To get there, the gunner could drag or sail or “pike” with a special pole. Ice on tidal waters varies markedly in thickness and strength. Sometimes a Scooter would drop down through softer ice - and sometimes it was easier to back out than it was to continue on forward. In such instances, the fantail – rounded and above the waterline – would enable the gunner to get back up on the ice by going in “reverse”. (He would propel the vessel in the chosen direction with either a pike pole or a small grapnel anchor on 40-or-so feet of line – to “kedge” back onto the ice.


I restored the TED SANFORD about 10 years ago.

View attachment 58222

I have yet to hunt it in its refreshed condition. With our warmer winters, Great South Bay seldom has the ice cover that spurred the development of the Scooter. I keep hoping that a January will provide what I need to once again get on the ice and drag and pike my way out to an air hole - whilst this old body can still do the work. Once that is accomplished, my next task will be to find a permanent home for this bit of history.

All the best,

SJS
rare that the documented history of a boat surfaces great story
 
Richard~

I have not seen this account. As I mentioned, Wilbur R. Corwin may very well have been in the Life Saving Service at the time. The "definitive source" I rely upon is from the Bellport Bay Scooter Club. The article was 1957 as I recall - maybe in a Long Island/Suffolk County historical society publication - and the author was Wilbur A. Corwin, Wilbur R.'s son.

Hmmmm......

There is no question that the LSS commissioned a fleet of Scooters - many built by Benjamin Hallock in Center Moriches. And, they were all de-commissioned circa 1954 - as per both my Dad and Dick Richardson's (past president of Pattersquash Gunners Association) father - who was in the USCG at the time.

All the best,

SJS
 
Steve

I just ran across plans for a hull very similar to your scooter by E.H. Kelly in Forest and Stream. I will add them to the Resources section, perhaps this evening. Maybe you saw them in your research efforts. They are very similar to your rig.
 
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