Richard Lathrop
Active member
Looking at photos from the 1950's and earlier I noticed that duck boats were not grassed. When did this become common?
Rick Lathrop
Rick Lathrop
When did grassing boats become common?
- Thread starter Richard Lathrop
- Start date
Steve Sanford
Well-known member
Good morning, Richard~
Interesting topic - about which I have pondered over the years.
I would need to re-read some of my older references, but here are my main thoughts:
1) Grassing/thatching has been around a long time. I have understood that Barnegat Bay Sneakboxes, for example, were no grassed up per se - i.e., no thatch rails to secure thatch (Salt Hay) for the season. Rather, the gunners simply grabbed whatever was handy at the gunning site on a daily basis - I imagine from the wrack line. Many of the Sneakboxes had toe rails along the gunnels. I always presumed they were to hold either grass/seaweed/wrack or ice whilst gunning. BTW: Even though I grass my boats to a fare-thee-well, I usually tossed some wrack over the decks once I arrived at my spot - mostly to break up the symmetry, and to blend in.
2) I believe thatch rails may have been "invented" on Long Island. Again, I am not sure of the era. This photo is from the Pattersquash Club on Bellport Bay circa 1923:
Many Benjamin Hallock Scooters - finished as "grassboats" with thatch rails - date back to the 1920s and 30s.
This Ralph Cranford - of Babylon - gunning skiff (grassboat) used a combination of bronze wires on the decks and thatch rails around the cockpit, on the stool rack and even on the folding oarlock stanchions to secure Salt Hay. The vessel may be as early as 1910.
From what have gathered, older gunning boats north and south of Long Island used grass or wrack for day-by-day camouflage, but did not use thatch rails until more recent (post WW II) decades.
I can certainly believe gunning vessels were grassed up earlier than the 20th century. And, the practice may have arisen in locations other than - or in addition to - Great South Bay. One reason I try to do what I do is to document information relative to our grand passion wherever/whenever I can. Sometimes, though, we are left to speculate.
All the best,
SJS
Interesting topic - about which I have pondered over the years.
I would need to re-read some of my older references, but here are my main thoughts:
1) Grassing/thatching has been around a long time. I have understood that Barnegat Bay Sneakboxes, for example, were no grassed up per se - i.e., no thatch rails to secure thatch (Salt Hay) for the season. Rather, the gunners simply grabbed whatever was handy at the gunning site on a daily basis - I imagine from the wrack line. Many of the Sneakboxes had toe rails along the gunnels. I always presumed they were to hold either grass/seaweed/wrack or ice whilst gunning. BTW: Even though I grass my boats to a fare-thee-well, I usually tossed some wrack over the decks once I arrived at my spot - mostly to break up the symmetry, and to blend in.
2) I believe thatch rails may have been "invented" on Long Island. Again, I am not sure of the era. This photo is from the Pattersquash Club on Bellport Bay circa 1923:
Many Benjamin Hallock Scooters - finished as "grassboats" with thatch rails - date back to the 1920s and 30s.
This Ralph Cranford - of Babylon - gunning skiff (grassboat) used a combination of bronze wires on the decks and thatch rails around the cockpit, on the stool rack and even on the folding oarlock stanchions to secure Salt Hay. The vessel may be as early as 1910.
From what have gathered, older gunning boats north and south of Long Island used grass or wrack for day-by-day camouflage, but did not use thatch rails until more recent (post WW II) decades.
I can certainly believe gunning vessels were grassed up earlier than the 20th century. And, the practice may have arisen in locations other than - or in addition to - Great South Bay. One reason I try to do what I do is to document information relative to our grand passion wherever/whenever I can. Sometimes, though, we are left to speculate.
All the best,
SJS
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Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
Considering that the first decoys discovered are Native American Decoys, and many hundreds of years old. Depending on how far back ya wanna go it makes sense that the "grassing of boats" took place a long time ago before the modern age.
Richard Lathrop
Active member
Thanks, photos like this had me wondering.
www.alamy.com
and this one.
www.alamy.com
but then you have this photo from same set.
www.alamy.com
1950s MAN DUCK HUNTER ROWING DUCK BOAT DECOYS ON REAR DECK AND KILLED DUCKS ON FRONT BARNEGAT BAY NJ USA Stock Photo - Alamy
Download this stock image: 1950s MAN DUCK HUNTER ROWING DUCK BOAT DECOYS ON REAR DECK AND KILLED DUCKS ON FRONT BARNEGAT BAY NJ USA - G6A5CC from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.
www.alamy.com
and this one.
1920s 1930s SENIOR MAN DUCK HUNTER STANDING IN SNEAK-BOX BOAT ABOUT TO DEPLOY DECOYS IN BARNEGAT BAY WETLANDS MARSH NEW JERSEY Stock Photo - Alamy
Download this stock image: 1920s 1930s SENIOR MAN DUCK HUNTER STANDING IN SNEAK-BOX BOAT ABOUT TO DEPLOY DECOYS IN BARNEGAT BAY WETLANDS MARSH NEW JERSEY - AAKWTR from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.
www.alamy.com
but then you have this photo from same set.
1920s MAN DUCK HUNTING STANDING IN SNEAKBOX BOAT IN MARSH AiMING SHOTGUN BARNEGAT BAY NEW JERSEY USA Stock Photo - Alamy
Download this stock image: 1920s MAN DUCK HUNTING STANDING IN SNEAKBOX BOAT IN MARSH AiMING SHOTGUN BARNEGAT BAY NEW JERSEY USA - FPW1GJ from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.
www.alamy.com
Last edited:
Wyatt Russo
Member
We’ve always grassed our grass boats on Long Island where I hunt the salt marshes on the south shore. I learned from my dad and his friends who have been hunting the bays for over 40 years. Even what grass to use was always a topic for discussion but thatch was always the best over salt hay.
Steve Sanford
Well-known member
Richard~Thanks, photos like this had me wondering.
1950s MAN DUCK HUNTER ROWING DUCK BOAT DECOYS ON REAR DECK AND KILLED DUCKS ON FRONT BARNEGAT BAY NJ USA Stock Photo - Alamy
Download this stock image: 1950s MAN DUCK HUNTER ROWING DUCK BOAT DECOYS ON REAR DECK AND KILLED DUCKS ON FRONT BARNEGAT BAY NJ USA - G6A5CC from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.
and this one.
1920s 1930s SENIOR MAN DUCK HUNTER STANDING IN SNEAK-BOX BOAT ABOUT TO DEPLOY DECOYS IN BARNEGAT BAY WETLANDS MARSH NEW JERSEY Stock Photo - Alamy
Download this stock image: 1920s 1930s SENIOR MAN DUCK HUNTER STANDING IN SNEAK-BOX BOAT ABOUT TO DEPLOY DECOYS IN BARNEGAT BAY WETLANDS MARSH NEW JERSEY - AAKWTR from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.
but then you have this photo from same set.
1920s MAN DUCK HUNTING STANDING IN SNEAKBOX BOAT IN MARSH AiMING SHOTGUN BARNEGAT BAY NEW JERSEY USA Stock Photo - Alamy
Download this stock image: 1920s MAN DUCK HUNTING STANDING IN SNEAKBOX BOAT IN MARSH AiMING SHOTGUN BARNEGAT BAY NEW JERSEY USA - FPW1GJ from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.
That last photo illustrates the idea of ad hoc "grassing" - with Eelgrass (Zostera marina) being common in the wrack line - right where the sneakbox would hide.
All the best,
SJS
Ahhh Grassing, the "worst-part" of the duck season! Definitely a labor intensive job but nothing truly compares quite like it...
Interesting question though, as Steve mentioned from what I've learned the Thatching Rails were likely developed here on Long Island NY. I know where I live in my town the "Salt-Hay" was a huge industry in the late 1800's early 1900's. We are blessed enough with some beautiful long grass that makes the perfect cover.
I have to admit, nowadays after many years of grassing and limited time I've switched over to synthetic solutions the raffia grass, camo netting and a combo of both.
Interesting question though, as Steve mentioned from what I've learned the Thatching Rails were likely developed here on Long Island NY. I know where I live in my town the "Salt-Hay" was a huge industry in the late 1800's early 1900's. We are blessed enough with some beautiful long grass that makes the perfect cover.
I have to admit, nowadays after many years of grassing and limited time I've switched over to synthetic solutions the raffia grass, camo netting and a combo of both.
Steve Sanford
Well-known member
Anthony~
Cutting Salt Hay indeed requires a bit of time, but....not too much if you have just one vessel!
All the best,
SJS
jode hillman
Well-known member
Sneakboxes were routinely grassed with Sedge and and seaweed on the Jersey coast going back to its inception in the late 1800s
Who just uses one vessel! You must have one for each day of the season duh!
Did they have grass rails for long term grassing, or did they gather on-site each hunt or maybe re-use what was cut and left on site?
Steve Sanford
Well-known member
Eric & Jode~
I bow to Jode's expertise on any Jersey vessels, but....note that Chappelle did not show thatch rails - or even toe rails - on this 1880s 'box - even though he took the lines off around 1950.
BTW, Eric: If you do build a traditional Barnegat Bay Sneakbox, this "superior model" would be the one! (These plans are framed to greet visitors in our mud room.)
All the best!
SJS
Steve
Those plans have the offsets which is a big benefit over some of the other plans where you'd need to pull them from the hull lines. How hard do you think it would be to modify those from displacement to planing? Total rework midship back? I haven't analyzed the needed steps yet but suspect you have a pretty good idea of how to go about that mod.
Those plans have the offsets which is a big benefit over some of the other plans where you'd need to pull them from the hull lines. How hard do you think it would be to modify those from displacement to planing? Total rework midship back? I haven't analyzed the needed steps yet but suspect you have a pretty good idea of how to go about that mod.
jode hillman
Well-known member
It varied by Gunner and location. Grass and weed was never in short supply. So it was usually gathered on site along the coast. Also it made it safer and easier to traverse open water in rough weather without the added weight and water absorption of grass.
Steve Sanford
Well-known member
Jode~
Your thoughts about the added weight of "permanent grass" sure ring true. I've always been cognizant of the weight - especially soaked or frozen hay - with my outboard-powered vessels - but it would be especially importantly whilst under sail.
See you in Tuckerton!
SJS
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
Safety and transportation on trailers were major factors in why my gunning partners and I never grassed our sneakboxs (nor my marsh boat) prior to hunting. Granted we Did Not Hunt Salt. We hunted Fresh Water Great lakes marshes, inland lakes, marshes and rivers. We all carried machetes and Army surplus spades to cut what was needed and shoveled to cover just Enough of the boat. Camo netting over half of the reclining hunter, and to cover the cockpit and it all worked just fine.
Nasty weather with rain turning to wet snow and dropping temps are ideal tolling conditions and common for the areas we hunt. Wet material that then freezes is a recipe for disaster and it can happen very fast. Freeboard disappears right before yer eyes. Your "you know what" will pucker up real fast. Ya gotta pickup and head for shore as best ya can ASAP.
In that vein pre grassing is more trouble than it's worth. I'm fairly certain that many of the old time gunners in some areas felt the same way. Less is More.
my 2 cents
Nasty weather with rain turning to wet snow and dropping temps are ideal tolling conditions and common for the areas we hunt. Wet material that then freezes is a recipe for disaster and it can happen very fast. Freeboard disappears right before yer eyes. Your "you know what" will pucker up real fast. Ya gotta pickup and head for shore as best ya can ASAP.
In that vein pre grassing is more trouble than it's worth. I'm fairly certain that many of the old time gunners in some areas felt the same way. Less is More.
my 2 cents