Does anyone have a Merrymeeting Bay Gunning Float?

[Richard Kassner]

Hello All,

I am restoring a glass over wood Merrymeeting Bay Gunning Float and I have some questions that owners of such boats maybe able to help me with.

A. HOW LARGE SHOULD A FLOAT'S SKEG BE?

My Float is 15 feet 5 inches long (according to the title). The Transom is 3 feet wide by 11 3/4 inches high. The Float is 44 inches wide amid ship.

The original skeg is 25 and 1/2 inches long, 1/4 inch wide, by 2 1/2 inches high. Frankly it appears puny to me. See picture below.

I had a very difficult time getting the boat to "track" when sculling.

I decided to make a new skeg as the original skeg was "cupped." The new skeg is 26 inches long, 3/4 inches wide, and 3 5/8th inches high. The new skeg is larger than the old skeg. See picture below.


While larger than the old skeg, the new skeg appears smallish compared to the boat. See picture below.


I "believe" that I am limited in making the skeg higher due to the risk of the skeg hitting something if the skeg protrudes beyond the centerline of the hull. The centerline of the hull to the transom is 4 and 1/8th inches high -see Picture below. This is why I made the new skeg only 3 5/8th inches high. (I wanted 1/2 inch clearance.)


I am wondering if I should not have made the skeg wider. For example, using 6/4 quarter sawn white oak instead of 3/4 inch white oak. I was concerned that the 1 1/4 inch wide Skeg would fail to sit "flat" on the hull as the hull gradually slopes starboard and port from the centerline. (I may have been too cautious.)

QUESTION: Would a wider Skeg help the boat track better -thereby making it easier to scull?

I could increase the height of the Skeg "if" I added a Keel down the centerline of the hull. For example, if I attached a 1 inch high by 1 inch wide keel and attach the 3 5/8th inch Skeg onto the Keel thereby raising the Skeg to 4 5/8th inches while maintaining the 1/2 inch clearance below the centerline.

QUESTION: Would a Higher Skeg help the boat track better -thereby making it easier to scull?

OR Is it just a matter of more practice regardless of the size of the Skeg? (After all the original Skeg was only 2 1/2 inches tall and built by someone who knew more about Merrymeeting Bay Gunning Floats than myself!)

B. ARE THERE KEELS AND HULL STRAKES ON SCULL FLOATS?

My Float doesn't have any nor do I recall seeing them on other Scull Floats.

Yet Merrymeeting Bay is in Maine and when I visited Maine as a child I remember rocks on the beach.

My Float's hull has been damaged at least twice by rocks. Both times amid ship with damage on the starboard and port side of the Float.

See Picture below of Starboard side of the Float -you might be able to make out the white fiberglass laminate repair at the Float's center. This was a good repair.


See Pictures below of the Port Side of the Float. (Notice the smashed wood strips. No fiberglass laminate was laid over the repair. Only some type of white filler and paint was used -which provided the opportunity for osmosis. A weak resin was used to glue over the damaged wood strips. I repaired them with Wood Epox.)




I would think that Keels and Hull Strakes would provide some protection of the hull from rocks and stones. Further, I would think these protrusions would help the Float track.

QUESTION: Do Keels and Hull Strakes impede Floats in "skinny" water whereby these protrusions more often get the Float "stuck in the mud" or "hit" rocks and stones?

QUESTION: Do Keels and Hull Strakes make it harder to Scull the Float in turns around creeks and such and this is why I do not see them on Floats?

I wonder "if" I am just thinking to build a set of "Training Wheels" on my Gunning Float by adding Hull Strakes, a Keel, and making the Skeg higher when what I really need to do is practice, practice, practice?


Any input would be most welcome.

Cheers

 

[Jeff Reardon]

MMB Gunning Float covers a lot of boats made by a lot of different people to hunt a lot of diverse areas in a big bay fed by 2 big rivers, 4 small ones, and a half dozen smaller tidal creeks. Some use them to scull up 6' wide freshwater (but tidal) creeks; others hunt them down near Bath where the water is salty, or in open water areas where Bay is 2 miles wide, and wind against tide can create some ugly waves.

Your skeg does look small compared to mine, but my sculler was built by someone down in Bath, and I have been told at several boat launches that it is a "lower Bay" boat. When I used to hunt up in Richmond and Bowdoinham (the upper Bay, fed by two of the small rivers) mine was generally the beamiest among them, so that makes some sense. I've read that some guides on the lower Bay would hunt two sports side by side, and the wider beam would--just barely--allow for this. My boat is glass over pine strips, and does have a wide and low "keel" that runs bow to stern, into which the skeg is bedded and bolted. This keel is proud of the bottom of the hull by about an inch and maybe 5" wide, so provides a good measure of protection to the bottom of the hull, but none to port or starboard. I've never seen one with strakes.

 

[Jeff Reardon]

One thing to add--my boat's hull is much more rounded from its widest beam, with the center of boat much deeper than the bow and stern. Yours has a bit of curve, but is much flatter. My skeg is both longer and taller than yours, and runs from just aft of the point of widest beam and deepest draft to the stern. That said, some of the commercially-made fiberglass sculling boats have quite flat bottoms and smaller skegs like yours and seem to scull just fine.

 

[Steve Sanford]

Hello All,

I am restoring a glass over wood Merrymeeting Bay Gunning Float and I have some questions that owners of such boats maybe able to help me with.

A. HOW LARGE SHOULD A FLOAT'S SKEG BE?

My Float is 15 feet 5 inches long (according to the title). The Transom is 3 feet wide by 11 3/4 inches high. The Float is 44 inches wide amid ship.

The original skeg is 25 and 1/2 inches long, 1/4 inch wide, by 2 1/2 inches high. Frankly it appears puny to me. See picture below.
View attachment 59866
I had a very difficult time getting the boat to "track" when sculling.

I decided to make a new skeg as the original skeg was "cupped." The new skeg is 26 inches long, 3/4 inches wide, and 3 5/8th inches high. The new skeg is larger than the old skeg. See picture below.
View attachment 59868

While larger than the old skeg, the new skeg appears smallish compared to the boat. See picture below.
View attachment 59867

I "believe" that I am limited in making the skeg higher due to the risk of the skeg hitting something if the skeg protrudes beyond the centerline of the hull. The centerline of the hull to the transom is 4 and 1/8th inches high -see Picture below. This is why I made the new skeg only 3 5/8th inches high. (I wanted 1/2 inch clearance.)
View attachment 59869

I am wondering if I should not have made the skeg wider. For example, using 6/4 quarter sawn white oak instead of 3/4 inch white oak. I was concerned that the 1 1/4 inch wide Skeg would fail to sit "flat" on the hull as the hull gradually slopes starboard and port from the centerline. (I may have been too cautious.)

QUESTION: Would a wider Skeg help the boat track better -thereby making it easier to scull?

I could increase the height of the Skeg "if" I added a Keel down the centerline of the hull. For example, if I attached a 1 inch high by 1 inch wide keel and attach the 3 5/8th inch Skeg onto the Keel thereby raising the Skeg to 4 5/8th inches while maintaining the 1/2 inch clearance below the centerline.

QUESTION: Would a Higher Skeg help the boat track better -thereby making it easier to scull?

OR Is it just a matter of more practice regardless of the size of the Skeg? (After all the original Skeg was only 2 1/2 inches tall and built by someone who knew more about Merrymeeting Bay Gunning Floats than myself!)

B. ARE THERE KEELS AND HULL STRAKES ON SCULL FLOATS?

My Float doesn't have any nor do I recall seeing them on other Scull Floats.

Yet Merrymeeting Bay is in Maine and when I visited Maine as a child I remember rocks on the beach.

My Float's hull has been damaged at least twice by rocks. Both times amid ship with damage on the starboard and port side of the Float.

See Picture below of Starboard side of the Float -you might be able to make out the white fiberglass laminate repair at the Float's center. This was a good repair.

View attachment 59870
See Pictures below of the Port Side of the Float. (Notice the smashed wood strips. No fiberglass laminate was laid over the repair. Only some type of white filler and paint was used -which provided the opportunity for osmosis. A weak resin was used to glue over the damaged wood strips. I repaired them with Wood Epox.)

View attachment 59871View attachment 59872


I would think that Keels and Hull Strakes would provide some protection of the hull from rocks and stones. Further, I would think these protrusions would help the Float track.

QUESTION: Do Keels and Hull Strakes impede Floats in "skinny" water whereby these protrusions more often get the Float "stuck in the mud" or "hit" rocks and stones?

QUESTION: Do Keels and Hull Strakes make it harder to Scull the Float in turns around creeks and such and this is why I do not see them on Floats?

I wonder "if" I am just thinking to build a set of "Training Wheels" on my Gunning Float by adding Hull Strakes, a Keel, and making the Skeg higher when what I really need to do is practice, practice, practice?
View attachment 59873

Any input would be most welcome.

Cheers

Richard~

I recommend John Gardner....



He has a whole chapter of Merrymeeting Bay Scull Boat. Note full length keel - as Jeff described.



Plans.



More drawings....on page 40.



I recommend both Gardner's "Building Classic Small Craft" books - which may have been combined into a single volume at one point.



Hope this helps!

SJS

 

[Steve Sanford]

Hello All,

I am restoring a glass over wood Merrymeeting Bay Gunning Float and I have some questions that owners of such boats maybe able to help me with.

A. HOW LARGE SHOULD A FLOAT'S SKEG BE?

My Float is 15 feet 5 inches long (according to the title). The Transom is 3 feet wide by 11 3/4 inches high. The Float is 44 inches wide amid ship.

The original skeg is 25 and 1/2 inches long, 1/4 inch wide, by 2 1/2 inches high. Frankly it appears puny to me. See picture below.
View attachment 59866
I had a very difficult time getting the boat to "track" when sculling.

I decided to make a new skeg as the original skeg was "cupped." The new skeg is 26 inches long, 3/4 inches wide, and 3 5/8th inches high. The new skeg is larger than the old skeg. See picture below.
View attachment 59868

While larger than the old skeg, the new skeg appears smallish compared to the boat. See picture below.
View attachment 59867

I "believe" that I am limited in making the skeg higher due to the risk of the skeg hitting something if the skeg protrudes beyond the centerline of the hull. The centerline of the hull to the transom is 4 and 1/8th inches high -see Picture below. This is why I made the new skeg only 3 5/8th inches high. (I wanted 1/2 inch clearance.)
View attachment 59869

I am wondering if I should not have made the skeg wider. For example, using 6/4 quarter sawn white oak instead of 3/4 inch white oak. I was concerned that the 1 1/4 inch wide Skeg would fail to sit "flat" on the hull as the hull gradually slopes starboard and port from the centerline. (I may have been too cautious.)

QUESTION: Would a wider Skeg help the boat track better -thereby making it easier to scull?

I could increase the height of the Skeg "if" I added a Keel down the centerline of the hull. For example, if I attached a 1 inch high by 1 inch wide keel and attach the 3 5/8th inch Skeg onto the Keel thereby raising the Skeg to 4 5/8th inches while maintaining the 1/2 inch clearance below the centerline.

QUESTION: Would a Higher Skeg help the boat track better -thereby making it easier to scull?

OR Is it just a matter of more practice regardless of the size of the Skeg? (After all the original Skeg was only 2 1/2 inches tall and built by someone who knew more about Merrymeeting Bay Gunning Floats than myself!)

B. ARE THERE KEELS AND HULL STRAKES ON SCULL FLOATS?

My Float doesn't have any nor do I recall seeing them on other Scull Floats.

Yet Merrymeeting Bay is in Maine and when I visited Maine as a child I remember rocks on the beach.

My Float's hull has been damaged at least twice by rocks. Both times amid ship with damage on the starboard and port side of the Float.

See Picture below of Starboard side of the Float -you might be able to make out the white fiberglass laminate repair at the Float's center. This was a good repair.

View attachment 59870
See Pictures below of the Port Side of the Float. (Notice the smashed wood strips. No fiberglass laminate was laid over the repair. Only some type of white filler and paint was used -which provided the opportunity for osmosis. A weak resin was used to glue over the damaged wood strips. I repaired them with Wood Epox.)

View attachment 59871View attachment 59872


I would think that Keels and Hull Strakes would provide some protection of the hull from rocks and stones. Further, I would think these protrusions would help the Float track.

QUESTION: Do Keels and Hull Strakes impede Floats in "skinny" water whereby these protrusions more often get the Float "stuck in the mud" or "hit" rocks and stones?

QUESTION: Do Keels and Hull Strakes make it harder to Scull the Float in turns around creeks and such and this is why I do not see them on Floats?

I wonder "if" I am just thinking to build a set of "Training Wheels" on my Gunning Float by adding Hull Strakes, a Keel, and making the Skeg higher when what I really need to do is practice, practice, practice?
View attachment 59873

Any input would be most welcome.

Cheers

Richard~

Here is a gunning float from Massachusetts - built by Lowell in Amesbury, if I recall correctly. A very different vessel - so maybe not very helpful for you.

The well in the bow holds ballast - to keep her nose in the water.



No keel or skeg...



Transom - before restoration (obviously).



All the best,

SJS

 

[Richard Kassner]

One thing to add--my boat's hull is much more rounded from its widest beam, with the center of boat much deeper than the bow and stern. Yours has a bit of curve, but is much flatter. My skeg is both longer and taller than yours, and runs from just aft of the point of widest beam and deepest draft to the stern. That said, some of the commercially-made fiberglass sculling boats have quite flat bottoms and smaller skegs like yours and seem to scull just fine.

Hello Jeff,

I apologize for the delayed reply to your post. I have been chasing my tail, so to speak, thinking about how I would go about modifying my boat to accommodate a keel, strakes, and a rub rail. Below, is a very long reply to your insightful response about Merrymeeting Bay and her boats. Thank you for that.

(My lengthy reply to you below is meant to aid others who may read this post and who are considering refurbishing the hull on their duck hunting boats. I used the West System 002-550 Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenance Manual for guidance through out this process.)

My boat now lives on the Chesapeake Bay where waves, oysters, mud, and sand bars are the main concern.



So I really wanted to protect the hull after all my hard work fairing, glassing, and sanding.

The gray color on the hull above is Liquid Colored Pigment from US Composites that I added to epoxy to create a barrier coat using West System 442 Barrier Coat Additive. I applied 7 "hot" coats of epoxy.

After applying those 7 coats I applied a Dry Guide Coat.


I then sanded that Dry Guide Coat off with an Hercules Orbital Sander with 150 grit sand paper and Soft Sanders using Dura-Gold 150 grit long board sand paper.


My "understanding" is that hull strakes and the keel will help the boat track in rough water and aid in preventing the boat from "skidding into the waves" that a smooth hull enables. I explained to my wife that I "thought" that in rough seas these improvements to the hull would work like power steering in a car versus the old unassisted steering where the steering wheel had allot of play on rough roads. At least that is how I see it.

The closest lumber yard to me is 18.6 miles away and they sell "rough cut" White Oak and Mahogany in 8' and 12' pieces. Some cuts are NOT kiln dried which I understand is a good thing for boats due to the wood's reaction to water.

I can safely get that lumber in my Jeep by tying a red flag to the end of the boards and driving down the side roads. By contrast, the nearest Home Depot or Lowes is located 38 miles away and requires me to drive 17 miles over a tolled bridge and tunnel network into Norfolk Virginia.

Even though Home Depot sells "Surfaced on 4 Sides" White Oak, I would still have to Plane those down using a Planer. My understanding is that I need a Planer and a Jointer to work with "Rough Cut" lumber.

So I searched on Face Book Market Place and Craigslist. I found a WEN PL-1326 Planer at Liquidation Nation some 44 miles away for $210 that was used once and returned. The clerk plugged in the Planer and the blades turned. So I bought it this Saturday.



On Sunday, much to my dismay, I found out that the planer will not feed lumber. I "think" the Gears are broken in the Gear Box Assembly. Worse, while I can return the unit, I cannot get my money back and that is the only planer they had.

They had a bunch of other items but I think I maybe exchanging one broken machine for another. Moreover, the tolls and gasoline are going to cost me roughly $33 and two hours of my time -minimum. A new Gear Box Assembly costs $50.85.

There are a few "how-to" videos on YouTube dealing with WEN planers with broken gears. I "might" try and fix this thing or take it as a sign to "Keep It Simple" and just finish the boat without making the improvements.

I was hoping that others from your area might chime in about these good looking boats or provide insight about sculling. Thanks again for your reply. It is much appreciated.

 

[Richard Kassner]

Richard~

I recommend John Gardner....

View attachment 59890

He has a whole chapter of Merrymeeting Bay Scull Boat. Note full length keel - as Jeff described.

View attachment 59891

Plans.

View attachment 59892

More drawings....on page 40.

View attachment 59893

I recommend both Gardner's "Building Classic Small Craft" books - which may have been combined into a single volume at one point.

View attachment 59894

Hope this helps!

SJS

Good Afternoon Steve,

I apologize for my delayed reply. As I wrote to Jeff, I spent allot of time going around in circles thinking about how I was going to modify the hull. Also, I spent some time researching solutions to hurdles in making the hull modifications.

I have John Gardner's book somewhere in my house. I was looking for the book after I read your reply but I can't seem to locate it just now. Thanks for posting the chapter.

I remember that chapter. In fact, it is one of the reasons I became drawn to Merrymeeting Bay Gunning Floats.

As I wrote to Jeff, I found a lumber yard that sells Rough Sawn White Oak and Mahogany in 8' and 12' sections. The lumber yard will not cut the lumber to size.

So this past Saturday I bought a used Planer whose cutter heads rotated when the machine was turned on at Liquidation Nation LLC. However, when I got the machine home, I discovered that the rollers to feed the lumber do not work.

I "suspect" broken gears in the Gear Box Assembly to be the culprit. The seller told me that he will not return my money if the machine does not work -hence the test of turning on the machine and watching the cutter heads spin before I paid him. He said that I could exchange the Planer for some other tools if it did not work when I got it home -though he hesitated when he said it. I have a receipt texted to my phone.

However, I am of the mind that I "might" be exchanging one broken tool that I "may" be able to fix for other tools with problems that I have no hope of fixing. What is that old adage, "If it is too good to be true, it probably is." I bought a $479 machine by WEN on sale for $210.

Perhaps I should take this as a sign to KEEP IT SIMPLE.

After all, I have only ONE 15amp circuit for my entire garage with no extra space for new circuit breakers in the fuse box. The WEN PL-1326 Planer is a 15 amp unit at a 120 volts. I would have to run the Dust Extractor (which I do not currently own) or any other electric powered tool on a separate circuit. That means either an extension cord from inside the house or using our small Predator 3500 Watt Inverter Generator.

Today, I was planning to rent a trailer and drive 188 miles to buy a clean looking 6 Inch Jointer for $400 so I could square the White Oak lumber. The broken Planner put a damper on those plans.

Steve, dark forces are preventing me from modifying the hull of this Gunning Float. We just had Halloween after all! Gremlins in the Tools!

Cheers

 

[Richard Lathrop]

Richard,

Where are you located on the Eastern Shore? From the distance to the Bay Bridge Tunnel I am guessing the Eastern Shore of Virginia. There are members on the Wooden Boat forum on the Eastern Shore who may be able to assist.

Rick Lathrop

 

[Richard Kassner]

Richard,

Where are you located on the Eastern Shore? From the distance to the Bay Bridge Tunnel I am guessing the Eastern Shore of Virginia. There are members on the Wooden Boat forum on the Eastern Shore who may be able to assist.

Rick Lathrop

Hello Rick,

Right first time Rick! I am located in Cape Charles. Town's beach below:

 

[Richard Kassner]

Richard~

Here is a gunning float from Massachusetts - built by Lowell in Amesbury, if I recall correctly. A very different vessel - so maybe not very helpful for you.

The well in the bow holds ballast - to keep her nose in the water.

View attachment 59902

No keel or skeg...

View attachment 59903

Transom - before restoration (obviously).

View attachment 59904

All the best,

SJS

Steve,

Thanks for the pictures.

I was thinking about buying 50 pounds of lead perhaps and stowing that lead underneath the foredeck. The added weight might be a big help in aiding the Gunning Float to track. There is room tucked up out of the way at the bow. I could attach the anchor rode to the lead weight I suppose.

(The gray color in the picture above is epoxy barrier coat using US Composites Liquid Colored Pigment.)

The bow is made of a block of wood so I cannot place the lead all the way forward. Below is a picture of the bow where I removed some delaminated glass. (I tapped my knuckles along the hull and got that unmistakable "thud" sound where the glass delaminated from the hull.)


The holes in the picture above are drill marks where I tried to drill holes first in the hopes of using a syringe to inject epoxy between the hull and the fiberglass laminate. However, that idea appeared inadequate after I drilled the holes.

The lead for sale on line seems pretty pricey -and then there is the shipping. There is a shop in Grasonville Maryland (Kent Narrows) that sells lead for $1.15 or $1.25 a pound. They are located just over 100 miles away.

 

[Richard Lathrop]

Steve,

Thanks for the pictures.

I was thinking about buying 50 pounds of lead perhaps and stowing that lead underneath the foredeck. The added weight might be a big help in aiding the Gunning Float to track. There is room tucked up out of the way at the bow. I could attach the anchor rode to the lead weight I suppose.
View attachment 60518
(The gray color in the picture above is epoxy barrier coat using US Composites Liquid Colored Pigment.)

The bow is made of a block of wood so I cannot place the lead all the way forward. Below is a picture of the bow where I removed some delaminated glass. (I tapped my knuckles along the hull and got that unmistakable "thud" sound where the glass delaminated from the hull.)

View attachment 60520
The holes in the picture above are drill marks where I tried to drill holes first in the hopes of using a syringe to inject epoxy between the hull and the fiberglass laminate. However, that idea appeared inadequate after I drilled the holes.

The lead for sale on line seems pretty pricey -and then there is the shipping. There is a shop in Grasonville Maryland (Kent Narrows) that sells lead for $1.15 or $1.25 a pound. They are located just over 100 miles away.

Richard,

I would look on Facebook marketplace for fishing weights. You can always recast into ingots using a bread pan.

Rick Lathrop

 

[SJ Fairbank]

If you want weight that you can move around and that won't damage the hull, buy a couple bags of lead shot. The nearest gun store with reloading supplies should have it. It usually comes in a tough cloth bag, you can always double bag it in an old burlap bag for safety.

 

[Richard Kassner]

Richard,

I would look on Facebook marketplace for fishing weights. You can always recast into ingots using a bread pan.

Rick Lathrop

Hi Rick,

Thanks. I will take a look at Facebook marketplace.

 

[Richard Kassner]

If you want weight that you can move around and that won't damage the hull, buy a couple bags of lead shot. The nearest gun store with reloading supplies should have it. It usually comes in a tough cloth bag, you can always double bag it in an old burlap bag for safety.

Hello,

That is a good idea. I did not think of that. I will check it out.

 

[Steve Sanford]

Richard~

I have heard about some scullers (?) who use a moveable ballast on a pulley system inside the hull. It gives control over the trim. I imagine that one might not want the vessel nose-down when the seas kick up - a moving the weight aft may ease one's nerves.

All the best,

SJS

 

[Richard Kassner]

Hello Steve,

That is a good point about not wanting nose down when the seas pick up. I will bear this mind when dealing with ballast in the boat and see what I can figure out. In fact, l will look to the internet to learn what others have done with a pully system. Perhaps someone has a tutorial on YouTube.

Thanks