TDB 14 Classic - "Easy" Fix

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Noah Shaver

Member
You guys ever start a project that's supposed to be a simple easy fix, only to have the scope of the project grow exponentially when you get into it?

That's where I'm at right now!

I bought this boat back in November from Central PA. It had a patch in the hull near the transom that needed to be repaired. All of the surrounding material passed the screwdriver prod test, so I figured this was going to be a fairly simply patch and this boat would be hunting in no time. Boy was I wrong.

I got the boat flipped over Friday and started working on preparing the area for the patch. This is when I found out that the surrounding material only felt hard because of the epoxy used for the previous patch. Get outside of the patched area and the material is wet and soft.

Some of the old balsa core is sopping wet, you can almost wring water out of it with your fingers. The crazy part is the boat hasn't been in the water in 8 years, and the material is still wet.

Removing this old balsa core sure is a pain. I started by cutting the fiberglass on the bottom of the boat and removing, but the first layer of glass is still bonded to the balsa core. I took my angle grinder and cut a grid pattern into the balsa core to make it easier to remove, and started with a hammer and a Chisel or a long flathead screwdriver.

This method works but is painstakingly slow. Yesterday I picked up some scraper blades for my oscillating saw and this speeds things up greatly. You still have some manual labor involved, but you can get the balsa core out in chunks instead of little pieces.

I haven't found the end of the wet material yet. I fear that I'm going to chase this all the way to the bow.

Here she is at the start:

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And as she sits now:

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That's an interesting view. Never seen one upside down. I wonder if they used 2x8's to form those tunnels?

You're probably correct in thinking the wet material extends to the bow. I have no experience trying it, but perhaps the wood will dry out if you leave the hull open and place the boat in a hot shed for the summer? If you tear the entire center of the hull out, I'd worry about structural integrity after it's rebuilt. Even where you are now is borderline. Also, chances are the balsa is saturated port and starboard of those tunnels.
 
SJ Fairbank said:
That's an interesting view. Never seen one upside down. I wonder if they used 2x8's to form those tunnels?

You're probably correct in thinking the wet material extends to the bow. I have no experience trying it, but perhaps the wood will dry out if you leave the hull open and place the boat in a hot shed for the summer? If you tear the entire center of the hull out, I'd worry about structural integrity after it's rebuilt. Even where you are now is borderline. Also, chances are the balsa is saturated port and starboard of those tunnels.
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It looks like they used 1x6's to form them if I had to guess.

It's funny you mention that about drying the balsa out. It is currently 90-95 degrees here and the boat has been outside, opened up for 3 or 4 days now. The material definitely has dried out, but the structure of it is gone. Even when dry it still flakes right apart.

I only plan to remove the existing balsa to the forward end of those tunnels/steps in the hull, that is basically the end of the usable floor space within the cockpit of the boat, so anything forward of that would never see foot traffic or any vertical load. Same thing goes for those areas you mention port and starboard of the tunnels. They will never see any foot traffic or vertical load. I don't worry as much about those areas because they have no way for water to intrude. The center section had been previously patched before and that patch was clearly leaking. Also, the brass thru hull where the plug is installed is known to leak. The port and starboard areas shouldn't have these issues.

I hadn't really questioned the structural integrity after the repair. My plan is to replace with H-80 Divinycell. I will put down epoxy with some sort of glass to bond/bed the Divinycell (recommendations welcomed here, CSM, Cloth?). After the Divinycell is installed and cured I plan to glass with at least 3 layers of 1708.

I guess I could get everything in the center faired and then come back and glass with another layer of 1708 over that center section and into the tunnels to tie everything together?
 
It looks like they used 1x6's to form them if I had to guess.

It's funny you mention that about drying the balsa out. It is currently 90-95 degrees here and the boat has been outside, opened up for 3 or 4 days now. The material definitely has dried out, but the structure of it is gone. Even when dry it still flakes right apart.

I only plan to remove the existing balsa to the forward end of those tunnels/steps in the hull, that is basically the end of the usable floor space within the cockpit of the boat, so anything forward of that would never see foot traffic or any vertical load. Same thing goes for those areas you mention port and starboard of the tunnels. They will never see any foot traffic or vertical load. I don't worry as much about those areas because they have no way for water to intrude. The center section had been previously patched before and that patch was clearly leaking. Also, the brass thru hull where the plug is installed is known to leak. The port and starboard areas shouldn't have these issues.

I hadn't really questioned the structural integrity after the repair. My plan is to replace with H-80 Divinycell. I will put down epoxy with some sort of glass to bond/bed the Divinycell (recommendations welcomed here, CSM, Cloth?). After the Divinycell is installed and cured I plan to glass with at least 3 layers of 1708.

I guess I could get everything in the center faired and then come back and glass with another layer of 1708 over that center section and into the tunnels to tie everything together?
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I'd be surprised if balsa under the entire floor isn't waterlogged. Water finds a way, either directly as liquid, or as condensate from the hull "breathing". Even if it's not competent to withstand a load, I'd let it dry our as much as possible to reduce weight.

I haven't done a repair that extensive, I'm not sure what to suggest as far as reconstructing the hull. I believe others on the site have such experience. Best of luck.
 
Makes you wonder if the original patch wasnt leaking?
Either way, you have your work cut out for you.
Keep us posted!
 
A couple questions for you guys on this repair/rebuild:

1) When installing the Divinycell, would you first put down a new layer of fiberglass/epoxy on the existing old fiberglass, or just mix up a large batch of thickened epoxy to bed the Divinycell in? Of course either way I would pre-wet the bottom of the new sheet with epoxy.

2) When tying the new fiberglass into the old hull fiberglass, my plan is to scarf the lip around the edges that I have left. Should I tie my fiberglass into these existing "boundaries" or should I lay a final layer of fiberglass that extends beyond the repair extents into the tunnels/steps in the hull?

Thanks for all the feedback!
 
Dave Diefenderfer said:
What is your repair plan? I am thinking maybe using some PVC material and create a grid and then sheath it...
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-Scarf the lips I've left around the edges in the existing hull fiberglass

-Either lay in a new layer of fiberglass or a good layer of thickened epoxy to bed my 3/4" thick Divinycell H-80 in. Let that cure.

-Minimum 3 new layers of 1708 over top of the Divinycell. Either tie it in to roughly fair with the scarfs around the edges or take it another step beyond that and have a large final layer of glass that goes into the steps in the hull
 
Noah~

I am sorry to hear about this problem. It certainly seems like you are approaching the "cure" methodically - so I can only wish you well.

I would certainly remove all of the wet balsa-core I could get to. I would have no hope for it drying out and still having and structural integrity. One can certainly appreciate why the whole 'glass boat industry has gone to all plastic-no wood. This lesson came late (I'm old enough to remember when fibreglass boats were an exciting new thing!) and the world is full of apparently sound boats with spongy decks and hulls.

Question: Have you weighed the hull? Even though you have already removed some weight, it would be interesting to know how it compares to the original factory hull weight.

Sorry - no experience with Divinycell. I would talk to technical staff at your source. IF you use CSM, you'll need to make sure it is chemically compatible with your epoxy resin.

All the best,

SJS
 
Steve, I've not weighed it, but it was all me and my brother could do to flip it over, and we are big guys. I'm expecting some wet flotation foam too, but that is a project for when I get the boat flipped back over.

What would your recommendation be on tying the new fiberglass into the old hull fiberglass? Should I tie my fiberglass into the scarf I will sand into the lips I have left or should I lay a final layer of fiberglass that extends beyond the repair extents into the tunnels/steps in the hull?
 
Noah Shaver said:
Steve, I've not weighed it, but it was all me and my brother could do to flip it over, and we are big guys. I'm expecting some wet flotation foam too, but that is a project for when I get the boat flipped back over.

What would your recommendation be on tying the new fiberglass into the old hull fiberglass? Should I tie my fiberglass into the scarf I will sand into the lips I have left or should I lay a final layer of fiberglass that extends beyond the repair extents into the tunnels/steps in the hull?
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I would definitely add one vote for allowing your new fiberglass to lap over the existing seams that you have. Trying to tie it in to that beveled edge would be difficult at best.

By overlaying your cut line you will increase the strength significantly
 
jode hillman said:
I would definitely add one vote for allowing your new fiberglass to lap over the existing seams that you have. Trying to tie it in to that beveled edge would be difficult at best.

By overlaying your cut line you will increase the strength significantly
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Yup! I agree with Jode. The centerline of any hull is a high wear area for trailered boats. Extra reinforcement is the way to go.

SJS
 
Hey Noah, I’ve been down this road unfortunately with my 1992 14’ Classic, I commend you for tackling it! I work alongside The Duck Boat Co and if I can offer any help reach out anytime. I would highly advise you remove the drain tube as well along with the stern handles. TDB never used sealant back then in those models and countless 14’s had this issue including mine. I can guarantee you water extended into the upper bow area as well. I would replace with Divinycell throughout and use composites. For the floor I would tackle that with coosa board and resin. Get a moisture meter and check the areas around the stern handles as well since you’re going this far. Also be mindful of the stern baffles (side flotation chambers)

If I can be of any assistance send me a DM I’ll provide my #
Best of luck! Those boats are great once “restored”
 
Hey Anthony, I will absolutely tackle those things.

The transom is next on the list when I finish this floor. When I do the transom I plan to replace the brass thru hull with a garboard style drain.

I'm sure the stern flotation chambers are full of wet foam. I plan to remove and replace this foam. While I've got the boat flipped I'm going to sand and fill the seam between the two halves of hull with 5200. I'm going to coat the bottom of the hull in Wetlander, and I just might extend this all the way over the seam in the hull so there is zero chance it leaks. I have some work to do on the grass rails as well. They need new hardware and a good reseal job.

Basically, what started as a small patch job has turned into a floor replacement, transom replacement, flotation foam rehab, grass rail rehab, and full paint job. That's just to get a functional hull :ROFLMAO:

I'll shoot you a message, I'd like to pick your brain on some fiberglass strategy/sequencing will all of these repairs.

Thank you!
 
Noah Shaver said:
Basically, what started as a small patch job has turned into a floor replacement, transom replacement, flotation foam rehab, grass rail rehab, and full paint job. That's just to get a functional hull :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

It's been my experience most boat repairs are like this. The majority of boat owners either do not see or neglect issues when they start and water's insidious nature results in substantial damage that can only be found through destructive inspection. I.e. you have to tear into it to find it. Often boats in this condition were not being used and parked on the back of the lot with the owner thinking "I'll get to it one day" until they realize they won't and put it up for sale. Like Steve said manufacturers, at least the good ones, have learned and are no longer putting wood in polyester resin boats.

But don't despair, you can make the repairs and do it in such a way you or any future owner won't have to deal with it ever again. It will be a great boat again in no time.
 
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