Open Water Low Horsepower Hull

[Nate Hoyt]

What hull plan do you recommend that fits the following requirements?

1.) Fits in truck bed with a bed extender and 1 man can reasonably portage with a cart.

2.) Displacement hull rated for 1.5-3 HP that also rows well and poles adequately.

3.) Can carry 2 men and a dog.

4.) Low profile and brushes in well.

5.) Seaworthy within reason for this small of a boat.

I’ve always prioritized draft and simplicity, but I have a chance to hunt to areas off the Chesapeake that are more exposed and somewhat deeper than I have traditionally hunted. My current flat bottom boats aren’t great options.

Thanks,

Nate

 

[Huntindave McCann]

What hull plan do you recommend that fits the following requirements?

1.) Fits in truck bed with a bed extender and 1 man can reasonably portage with a cart.

2.) Displacement hull rated for 1.5-3 HP that also rows well and poles adequately.

3.) Can carry 2 men and a dog.

4.) Low profile and brushes in well.

5.) Seaworthy within reason for this small of a boat.

I’ve always prioritized draft and simplicity, but I have a chance to hunt to areas off the Chesapeake that are more exposed and somewhat deeper than I have traditionally hunted. My current flat bottom boats aren’t great options.

Thanks,

Nate

In my opinion; requirement #3 is hard to achieve in a hull which also meets requirement #1
Perhaps a pirogue?

 

[Nate Hoyt]

Yeah, I know, but I have to push the envelope somewhere so that everyone doesn’t tell me “just build a BBSB”.

Nate

 

[Nate Hoyt]

I should also point out that both of my current boats are pirogues. Neither is a great fit for the bay in anything but the calmest conditions.

Nate

 

[Carl]

I was thinking of options but combining #1 and #3 are pretty tough.
Maybe a couple of the hulls SJ Fairbanks is building in his recent thread??

 

[SJ Fairbank]

I was thinking of options but combining #1 and #3 are pretty tough.
Maybe a couple of the hulls SJ Fairbanks is building in his recent thread??

Thank you for the thought Carl, but they're only 9'. A tad small for what was termed "exposed and deeper". While on the subject, I need to post some more progress.

I wonder if one of the 13' Duck Boss hulls would meet Nate's needs?

 

[Nate Hoyt]

I like to build my own low/no power boats. Next boat I would pay for would be something like a 2472 SeaArk.

I could reverse engineer from the Mystic Seaport Museum plans and cold mold a BBSB with 6 mm ply strips. With the compound curves and full deck, I bet a monocque melonseed-style hull would be rigid enough for displacement speeds once glassed with 6 oz. fabric on both sides. Getting 6 mm ply to hold a fair curve between frames might be challenging, but I could add additional temp frames and widen the strips a bit to address that and to simplify construction. I keep shying away from actual bead-and-cove strip-built because clear cedar and cypress are hard to find, harder to pay for, and heart breaking to turn to that much sawdust.

Does anyone know anyone who has made a traditional arch-bottom BBSB using modern methods? Those old plank-on-frame boats are beautiful, but they won't work for me due to the weight. I am not interested in any of the modern BBSB variants that use ply to make angular hulls.

Nate

 

[Steve Sanford]

What hull plan do you recommend that fits the following requirements?

1.) Fits in truck bed with a bed extender and 1 man can reasonably portage with a cart.

2.) Displacement hull rated for 1.5-3 HP that also rows well and poles adequately.

3.) Can carry 2 men and a dog.

4.) Low profile and brushes in well.

5.) Seaworthy within reason for this small of a boat.

I’ve always prioritized draft and simplicity, but I have a chance to hunt to areas off the Chesapeake that are more exposed and somewhat deeper than I have traditionally hunted. My current flat bottom boats aren’t great options.

Thanks,

Nate

Good morning, Nate~

I've been watching this thread - and scratchin' my head. Wanting to carry 2 men and a dog and keeping it light and seaworthy - and all in the back of a pickup.....

You also seem to share my penchant for shapely hulls.

One question and a few thoughts....

Question: How wide is the bed of your pickup? (and how long a vessel will the bed extender hold?) I'm a trailer guy - and my Forester only handles vessels on its roof rack - never inside.

1. For that load, I would want a vessel that is about 13-foot LOA - with a beam of 5 feet. And, I always want a draft of about 4 inches or less.

2. My sneakbox RED-LEG has a 'glass hull. She is 13'5" LOA with a 5'0" beam. She has a very seakindly hull and is semi-displacement. She moves along with a 15 on the stern - but would do well enough with a 3 hp. I built her as a 1-man (a dog would fit as well) but it could be set up for 2.



Here it is with its quickly-detachable sit up blind - in hiding mode.

Flaps down for shooting....



The best thing about her, though is her hull. A shallow and beamy arc. She rows and poles beautifully.



Her spoon bow rises up and over head seas.



Her round sections keep her upright in any kind of beam sea. With a spray dodger and some cautious seamanship she has weathered many gales along Long Island's south shore bays.



An earlier 'box I built as a 2-man vessel.



It was a 13-foot Herter's cartopper that I cut down and splayed out to a 5-foot beam. We hunted it side-by-side.



Here it is after I added a low dodger to hide our heads - and keep the wind off our necks. There was room for a dog at our feet - beneath the lap cover.



Building any vessel from scratch is certainly rewarding, but I would urge you consider finding an appropriate hull and modifying it for your needs. Much, much less time and money. I would be looking for a sailboat hull.

Here are some on Facebook Marketplace up here in the Northeast (all cheap-to-nothing):

O'Day Javelin



Man-O-War



Unknown....







O'Day Day Sailer (Free!)



The Day Sailer is 16'9" LOA - but can be cut shorter. I made one into my 2-man layout (scooter) WHITE-WING:



It is surprising how light one of these hulls can be when you remove the decks, centerboard trunks, etc and get them down to bare glass.

Which brings me to construction method. If you do not cut down and modify an existing hull, I would opt for 'glass in any event. While strip-built or true cold-molded would yield a lighter and stiffer hull, the materials expense alone would be way higher than a mat-roving-mat layup (which is the schedule for most canoes, Sunfish, etc).

The easiest (and cheapest) approach is to mold from an existing hull (male mold method). Slather and polish the hull with "no-stick" (or cover it with cellophane) and have at it.

If you have to make your own shape, one can be made with a 2x4 strongback, 3/4-inch plywood or common pine stations, and lots of ribbands ripped from inexpensive lumber (even sheathing-grade plywood) and nailed close together, then joint compound. After waxing, etc., male-mold a new hull as you would on existing hull. (There's at least one book about this approach - and probably some YouTubes nowadays.)

Hope this helps!

SJS

 

[roy brewington]

Don,t believe you,ll ever find something light as you've specked that will carry 2 men and be seaworthy and fit in back of a pickup. I think your looking at acquiring 2 separate hulls, one for each hunter. Good luck on your search.

 

[Tom Whitehurst]

Here’s an old photo of my old boat built as Steve’s post states. About 1995 on a super flood tide. Length was 13 foot with about a 5 foot beam. I trailered it and ran a 15hp on lt.

 

[Nate Hoyt]

Good morning, Nate~

I've been watching this thread - and scratchin' my head. Wanting to carry 2 men and a dog and keeping it light and seaworthy - and all in the back of a pickup.....

You also seem to share my penchant for shapely hulls.

One question and a few thoughts....

Question: How wide is the bed of your pickup? (and how long a vessel will the bed extender hold?) I'm a trailer guy - and my Forester only handles vessels on its roof rack - never inside.

1. For that load, I would want a vessel that is about 13-foot LOA - with a beam of 5 feet. And, I always want a draft of about 4 inches or less.

2. My sneakbox RED-LEG has a 'glass hull. She is 13'5" LOA with a 5'0" beam. She has a very seakindly hull and is semi-displacement. She moves along with a 15 on the stern - but would do well enough with a 3 hp. I built her as a 1-man (a dog would fit as well) but it could be set up for 2.

View attachment 79013

Here it is with its quickly-detachable sit up blind - in hiding mode.View attachment 79014

Flaps down for shooting....

View attachment 79015

The best thing about her, though is her hull. A shallow and beamy arc. She rows and poles beautifully.

View attachment 79016

Her spoon bow rises up and over head seas.

View attachment 79017

Her round sections keep her upright in any kind of beam sea. With a spray dodger and some cautious seamanship she has weathered many gales along Long Island's south shore bays.

View attachment 79018

An earlier 'box I built as a 2-man vessel.

View attachment 79019

It was a 13-foot Herter's cartopper that I cut down and splayed out to a 5-foot beam. We hunted it side-by-side.

View attachment 79020

Here it is after I added a low dodger to hide our heads - and keep the wind off our necks. There was room for a dog at our feet - beneath the lap cover.

View attachment 79021

Building any vessel from scratch is certainly rewarding, but I would urge you consider finding an appropriate hull and modifying it for your needs. Much, much less time and money. I would be looking for a sailboat hull.

Here are some on Facebook Marketplace up here in the Northeast (all cheap-to-nothing):

O'Day Javelin

View attachment 79022

Man-O-War

View attachment 79023

Unknown....

View attachment 79024

View attachment 79025

View attachment 79026

O'Day Day Sailer (Free!)

View attachment 79027

The Day Sailer is 16'9" LOA - but can be cut shorter. I made one into my 2-man layout (scooter) WHITE-WING:

View attachment 79028

It is surprising how light one of these hulls can be when you remove the decks, centerboard trunks, etc and get them down to bare glass.

Which brings me to construction method. If you do not cut down and modify an existing hull, I would opt for 'glass in any event. While strip-built or true cold-molded would yield a lighter and stiffer hull, the materials expense alone would be way higher than a mat-roving-mat layup (which is the schedule for most canoes, Sunfish, etc).

The easiest (and cheapest) approach is to mold from an existing hull (male mold method). Slather and polish the hull with "no-stick" (or cover it with cellophane) and have at it.

If you have to make your own shape, one can be made with a 2x4 strongback, 3/4-inch plywood or common pine stations, and lots of ribbands ripped from inexpensive lumber (even sheathing-grade plywood) and nailed close together, then joint compound. After waxing, etc., male-mold a new hull as you would on existing hull. (There's at least one book about this approach - and probably some YouTubes nowadays.)

Hope this helps!

SJS

Thanks for the advice. I've been snooping around your blog looking at your various builds. You've built some nice ones.

I know I'm asking for a lot, but I also know I can do almost all the mentioned things INSHORE with a flat back canoe/pirogue, but those aren't great open water choices and they don't brush in as nicely as a sneakbox. I just hoped there was something like a stretched ultralight BBSB that could stay under 130# or so. I won't go out in ridiculous conditions regardless, but I want something that is seaworthy enough to allow me to frantically pick up my dekes and scramble home if the wind shifts and things start to get nasty.

My truck is a full size, so it is 4' between the wheel wells. It is also a crew cab short bed, so the cross bar of the extender is only a bit over 8' behind the cab. I can haul a 16' hull if I put the transom in first and properly lash it down. I'll probably get a trailer eventually, but I'd like to skip that for a bit. I figure I can fit a 13.5'x5' hull in pretty easily if I put together a cradle frame that lifts it so the edges are above the wheel wells.

I'll look into the old sailboat options in my area. I thought those were usually pretty heavy, but if you think I can cut enough stuff out to lighten it up enough to meet my needs, I can reconsider them. That would definitely be faster than a scratch build. I'm not in a huge hurry and I like to build them, but working out the kinks in a cheaper platform before a full build makes a lot of sense.

Thanks,

Nate

 

[Nate Hoyt]

Good morning, Nate~

I've been watching this thread - and scratchin' my head. Wanting to carry 2 men and a dog and keeping it light and seaworthy - and all in the back of a pickup.....

You also seem to share my penchant for shapely hulls.

One question and a few thoughts....

Question: How wide is the bed of your pickup? (and how long a vessel will the bed extender hold?) I'm a trailer guy - and my Forester only handles vessels on its roof rack - never inside.

1. For that load, I would want a vessel that is about 13-foot LOA - with a beam of 5 feet. And, I always want a draft of about 4 inches or less.

2. My sneakbox RED-LEG has a 'glass hull. She is 13'5" LOA with a 5'0" beam. She has a very seakindly hull and is semi-displacement. She moves along with a 15 on the stern - but would do well enough with a 3 hp. I built her as a 1-man (a dog would fit as well) but it could be set up for 2.

View attachment 79013

Here it is with its quickly-detachable sit up blind - in hiding mode.View attachment 79014

Flaps down for shooting....

View attachment 79015

The best thing about her, though is her hull. A shallow and beamy arc. She rows and poles beautifully.

View attachment 79016

Her spoon bow rises up and over head seas.

View attachment 79017

Her round sections keep her upright in any kind of beam sea. With a spray dodger and some cautious seamanship she has weathered many gales along Long Island's south shore bays.

View attachment 79018

An earlier 'box I built as a 2-man vessel.

View attachment 79019

It was a 13-foot Herter's cartopper that I cut down and splayed out to a 5-foot beam. We hunted it side-by-side.

View attachment 79020

Here it is after I added a low dodger to hide our heads - and keep the wind off our necks. There was room for a dog at our feet - beneath the lap cover.

View attachment 79021

Building any vessel from scratch is certainly rewarding, but I would urge you consider finding an appropriate hull and modifying it for your needs. Much, much less time and money. I would be looking for a sailboat hull.

Here are some on Facebook Marketplace up here in the Northeast (all cheap-to-nothing):

O'Day Javelin

View attachment 79022

Man-O-War

View attachment 79023

Unknown....

View attachment 79024

View attachment 79025

View attachment 79026

O'Day Day Sailer (Free!)

View attachment 79027

The Day Sailer is 16'9" LOA - but can be cut shorter. I made one into my 2-man layout (scooter) WHITE-WING:

View attachment 79028

It is surprising how light one of these hulls can be when you remove the decks, centerboard trunks, etc and get them down to bare glass.

Which brings me to construction method. If you do not cut down and modify an existing hull, I would opt for 'glass in any event. While strip-built or true cold-molded would yield a lighter and stiffer hull, the materials expense alone would be way higher than a mat-roving-mat layup (which is the schedule for most canoes, Sunfish, etc).

The easiest (and cheapest) approach is to mold from an existing hull (male mold method). Slather and polish the hull with "no-stick" (or cover it with cellophane) and have at it.

If you have to make your own shape, one can be made with a 2x4 strongback, 3/4-inch plywood or common pine stations, and lots of ribbands ripped from inexpensive lumber (even sheathing-grade plywood) and nailed close together, then joint compound. After waxing, etc., male-mold a new hull as you would on existing hull. (There's at least one book about this approach - and probably some YouTubes nowadays.)

Hope this helps!

SJS

I was just looking around for for hulls on Marketplace near me. Sunfish seem too narrow across the transom for any motor. The melonseeds, lasers and Chryslers seem reasonably wide. Thoughts?

Nate

 

[Tony hall]

What about an old aluminum and build a Zack box? Like what Steve was saying? A 12-14 aluminum should be available cheap no matter where you live, do light framing like Steve showed and skin it over . Seems like the fastest cheapest way to a safe in situations you want to hunt

I did a sunfish sneak box and while it hid great it was slooooooow with a 4hp and scary (bottom would flex/tincan) with a 15. Could fit two guys with some decoys, bags, etc. Also wasn’t super light. If I ever did it again I would tear the hull all the way apart and remove all the foam. And build it for rowing only . Can send you pics if you want.
Tony

 

[Steve Sanford]

Nate and Tony~

I have converted one Sunfish - but for 1-man with no motor.



It is fine for its purpose BUT...IF I did one again I would remove the decks entirely - and all of the foam and interior structure. Such a stripping reduces the hull weight by more than half. (I don't understand why this image is on its side....)



Note how the existing decks are too flat. They need about 5 inches of crown - which I would do with 1/4 plywood on 1/2-inch plywood frames.



I agree that Sunfish are quite narrow at the stern BUT you are dealing with a displacement hull - so anything more than minimum horsepower ( 2or 3 horses) would be wasteful. I would look for one of the O'Day sailboats - Wigeon or Javelin - for a wider transom but still use the smallest motor.

Cutting down a cartopper as Tony suggested (and like my 2-man shown in my first note) - be it tin or 'glass - gives more interior room but will be cranky to row or pole compared with a sailboat hull shape. The "run" - last third of the bottom - on a rowing or sailing hull usually sweeps up just to or above the waterline. This makes for clean movement through the water but precludes speed. Displacement hulls cannot exceed their theoretical maximum which is a function of waterline length - and cannot be "fixed" with more power. So, be content to be slow but safe.

Tony~ Please post a photo or 2 of your conversion.

Hope this helps!

SJS

 

[Douglas Petro]

Duckwater Mini-Me 12 might work for you.

 

[Jeff Reardon]

No idea how it would work as a duck boat, but as a kid I sailed those O'Day Daysailers at 16' and it was a sweet sailing boat. Another that was mass produced in that era was the Tanzer 14. We had one--along with a 1.5 hp Johnson outboard that would kick it along at 4-5 mph. As a sailboat, we used it to cross 25'-mile long Sebago Lake and also in protected salty spots on the Maine coast. It's a different ocean (or lake) in November and December than it is June-September, though.

I really wish I knew what happened to that Tanzer. My Dad "loaned" it to a buddy to keep at his lake house when my sister and I went off to college, and it was never seen again.

 

[Nate Hoyt]

I definitely want a displacement hull so that a light 1.5-3 HP outboard will push it efficiently at hull speed. The Sunfish seem too narrow even got that small a motor.

This area has a lot of primitive dirt launches. The heavier construction of a planing hull and any motor large enough to plane just make it miserable to manhandle to and from the water. The runs are short enough that speed is not a priority; it can put-put out and back.

Nate