A little progress on the boat floor...and a question..

Ed L.

Ed L.

Well-known member
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I had a chance to wotk on the boat this weekend and managed to get he floor out of the boat.

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I couldn't find the charger for my circular saw so I bought a new tool.

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If you're looking at these but haven't pulled the trigger yet this is a great little tool. There are just a couple of things to talk about. The first thing I'll mention is although the literature says it will cut 3/4" plywood I'll agree yes it will cut 3/4" ply as long as your cut is a short cut. Cutting 1/2" ply with with a layer of fiberglass approx 1/8" thick burned out the bushings. My fault. I shouldn't have tried to cut the floor out in one day. I worked it to hard. I advise getting the extended warranty. I did and I got a new one. The blades don't have teeth rather they have a rough carbide edge and at 20,000 rpm they gum up epoxy fast. I went though two blades at $20 each. The last thing I'll mention is the depth adjustment is a basic cam operation. The cam lock can't handle the vibration the saw sets up while operating. I noticed dust on the garage floor when I pulled the floor out.

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Apparently the depth cam lever vibrated loose and I plunged right though the hull. Any thought as what I should do to fix this is most appreciated. There are actually two cuts both are clean and approx. 1/16" wide and 6" long. My first though is place a piece of tape on the outside and pour epoxy in the cuts and back with fiberglass.
 
Bummer Ed. On the cuts, I would put tape over the cuts on the outside of the hull and pour in your resin from inside the hull. Maybe even "Vee" out the hole from the inside a little if you can. I would then just have someone gelcoat over the "oopsie" and it should look as good as new.

I think we are saying the same thing.

Mark W
 
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Ed, with respect to your slits, I would grind/sand the inside several inches in all directions. Tape the outside to protect it, then glass a patch over the slits on the inside. After it cures, pull the tape and fair/fill, blend and paint the outside. I think you need the glass to bridge the gap, not just epoxy to fill the slit.
 
Saw cuts are like cracks, they tend to keep cracking. Drill a hole at the ends so they are round. Grind the inside and put on two layers of glass cloth, first one a inch wider than the cut, second two inches wider. Smooth with 80 grit between layers to get rid of bumps and hairs. Finish with 220.
If you want a pretty outside finish, West Marine has a gel coat patch kit. If you're going to OD it don't bother.
 
Ed, with respect to your slits, I would grind/sand the inside several inches in all directions. Tape the outside to protect it, then glass a patch over the slits on the inside. After it cures, pull the tape and fair/fill, blend and paint the outside. I think you need the glass to bridge the gap, not just epoxy to fill the slit.
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I agree with Dave. You need to grind a wide vee ( on the inside) and layer in glass fabric (several layers) to gain back the full hull strength.
 
Mark, Dave, Capt Rich and Huntindave....Thanks for the help.

I'm planning on topping the new floor with a piece of 8oz. cloth. I assume this will be fine for my patch as well. Also it's been suggested that my boat was built with poly resin and should be fixed with poly resin but without explaination other than "that's how we build boats" Is there a better reason. Everyone here uses epoxy. Will epoxy eat up my poly resin? Is it easier to work with?
 
For secondary bonds epoxy is superiior. It is a glue not just a resin system. The vee everone is suggesting is correct. Do a search for scarfing. That is in fact what you will be doing by making the vee. 8 oz is not enough to stop the movement. Figure out how thick the hull is and feather nine times this amount in both directions normal to the slit. Fill with glass the thickness of the hull and when cured feather the glass back down where the additional layers lay over onto the inside of the hull. The tape is to keep the mess to a minimum on the outside. There should be little to fair if you use the tape. Good Luck, Frank

Middletonboatworks.com
 
Epoxy will stick to poly...

poly will NOT bond effectively to Epoxy

Repair with epoxy as described above.

Sorry to hear about the "added fun" of the new issue.
 
Ed,
use vinal ester resin or polyester resin to do a pure glass fabric repair. If you are working with a mix of wood and cloth, epoxy is much better over the wood at holding the cloth to it and will stick to the fiberglass.
 
Epoxy has the best secondary bonding characteristics, (meaning it bonds well to solid surfaces), vinyl ester is a second, and polyester last. Whoever told you to use poly because the boat is poly doesn't know what they are talking about. Your boat is made of poly resin. Polyester has primary bonding characteristics that are just fine, (meaning it creates a strong bond with itself when all the resin in the structure cures at the same time, such as a hull in a boat mold) You can get away with using polyester but if you don't want to revisit your repair in a few years I would suggest epoxy or vinyl ester. In fact, just go ahead and use epoxy on the cuts in the hull, it won't take much and you'll never have to worry about it again. Everyone is correct about creating a scarf joint to repair those cuts, but if the cuts are below deck where the repair will never be seen you could just sand a large area of the inside of the hull to get it cleaned up, and then lay a couple pieces of your 8oz cloth over it. I'm sure this would fix your problem, you could then do whatever cosmetic repair you felt like to the outside.
 
By the way, you should probably use something a little heavier than 8oz cloth for your floor. If you already have your cloth then I would suggest topping the cloth with some chop/mat. Get a rib roller(absolutely necessary, $15) and put a layer or two over your cloth. And you will find that this stuff is much easier to sand than cloth,. and a whole lot cheaper. And you want to avoid sanding cloth if at all possible. Cloth is expensive, and you use it because the weave provides a great deal of strength. If you sand the cloth you destroy the weave thereby loosing the strength inherent in it, and wasting your money. That is why it's a good Idea to make the top(sacrificial) layer of what ever your doing out of chop/mat. You can sand the mat smooth easily, it is cheap, and you retain the strength characteristics of the cloth underneath. And just to clarify, epoxy is superior in every possible way and in every possible application to polyester and vinyl ester, but all of them will work. And vinyl ester will give you the most bang for your buck.
 
Thanks for all the help and explanations. I have my materials on order. 1/2 gal kit of 635 thin epoxy resin and harder, 3 yds of 6 oz. cloth (recommended from the supplier) and assorted pumps, paddles, rollers. The supplier suggested (3) layers of the 6 oz cloth 2" to 3" wide with 1/2" overlaps over the slits.

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The slits thought the hull are in an area under the floor so I'll sand smooth and clean for a good bond but nothing fancy. I understand that epoxy won't take gel coat so I'll just use a little auto touch up paint on the outside of the hull. The cuts are close to the waterline so I'm told this isn't going to get a lot of stress and flexing which I was glad to hear. As a designer I understand sheetmetal design and why we radius square corners. I'll radius the cuts at the ends to hold down the chance of breakout or ripping of the material as well as grinding an angle to the edges for better bonding area of the cuts.
 

Hey Ed -

Might want to use a little caution on the automotive paint for your boat. The hull will flex moer than sheetmetal on a car. One work around would be to add some of the flex additive painters use when painting plastic bumpers on cars. This may work on your boat but I woud still be cautious if this is going to be underwater.

Imron is a good paint to use on a boat and there is another one by interlux that I can't recall. Might want to ask around about the paint you choose.

I see the easiest repair was not mentioned - a big ass bilge pump, or a couple of big ass bilge pumps. Why fix the repair when you can just pump the water out.
Something else to keep in mind. Make sure that any of the fiberglass you use does not come in contact with water. These strands can act as wicks and through capillary action "suck" water into your laminate. I don't think you are planning to leave the boat in the water so it shouldn't matter anyway, just passing along some info.

Mark W
 
John,
have you used chopped strand mat with Epoxy? I was under the impression that the seizer(Glue) for the chopped strand mat required the effect of the resin and MEK(Poly or Vinal) to work properly but this is close to a WAG, since I never wet out Mat with epoxy?
It is very good to bring up Mat as it is a great bulk builder to give the repair area material to be sanded without cutting into the structural layers of the BiAx or cloth.

Bob
 
Mark,

I have a couple of "Big A$$ bilge pumps. the problem I see is the Big A$$ battery I'll need while trolling! hehehe

Imron?.....Holly Crappie Batman. I just need this boat to last a couple more seasons then I get my new Walleye boat and this one can rot in the yard! I'm back on the river. No more fiberglass boats for me. I'm going back to tin. If there's something to hit I'll hit it and fishing back in the sloughs is rough on a fiberglass boat.
 
On second thought Ed, I would just go to a boat repair place and either ask them to spray some gel on the repair or purchase a little your self and spray it on.

I get the "boat only has to last a couple of seasons" comment. I usually say the same thing and in the end do it the right way. Why explain to some future purchaser what was repaired, why and how. Puts doubt in people's mind.

I now know how you broke that cutter - threw it against the wall when y9ou discovered sawdust on the floor didn't you? That's what would have happened to mine.

Mark W
 
Mark,

I probably won't even touch up the hull. It's just a fishing boat. My goal is no leaking.

I don't know what the future holds for this boat but I photo document everything so if I do happen to sell this boat anyone will have the opportunity to view the pictures. It'll be up to the potential buyer to determine if he agrees with how I fixed the boat or not. I won't sell a boat I won't ride in myself. I've been the recipient of half ass fixes and I don't like anymore than the next guy.

I have lost my temper before and thrown things but I must be getting old. Cutting though the hull didn't even piss me off like it might have in an earlier life. I've screwed up worst than this before.
 
Ed,
use vinal ester resin or polyester resin to do a pure glass fabric repair. If you are working with a mix of wood and cloth, epoxy is much better over the wood at holding the cloth to it and will stick to the fiberglass.
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Pretty basic stuff Bob for someone who uses their experiance working at a boatyard to bolster their arguments in internet pissing matches.

John makes a nice summary. Thanks for the clarification John.
 
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