advice from old gun enthusiasts

A

ABeck

Member
Recently undertaken project to get myself a "shooter grade" older double for duck hunting has proven more frustrating than anticipated. question is this,
Do LC Smith's really have a weak stock and are not to be used for shooting unless pampered like royalty and fed low pressure shells or did the dealer just not like what I had in mind for his precious firearm? Seriously, The same gentleman mentioned that a Parker might be a better choice but they all seem to be three times the price. how can I get some more information to better pursue the search?
thanks
Aaron
 
With the recent demise of Bismuth, what are you planning to use in it?You might look at a new LC Smith from Marlin, they are all shot compatible. Most of the old timey SxS should be loaded to about 6000 psi from what I have read. There are a few nice looking Smiths on Guns America and Gunbroker.com.
 
Fox, parker and smith all have stock issues when feed modern high pressure loads over a long period of time, especially when the inletting is heavily soaked with years of oil. Parkers and foxes will wedge and split around the safety tamg, smiths have a bad design in that there is very little meat left after inletting. Getting an Smith stock cleaned and glass bedded for $50-$100 won't completely allow you to shoot any load you want, but it will give you more freedom. I even shoot factory 3" bismuth and kent through my 1926 smith long range that has been glass bedded. Find yourself a knowledgeable double gunsmith even if you have to shop around.
 
There are several issues to consider.
1-Nothing wrong with slower, less recoil shells. The "bigger faster" shell is best theroy actually has more to do with leads then kill power according to Roster.
2- E shot will soon be available for reloading. The first two shot sizes coming to market is #? for goose and #4 for ducks. This stuff is suppose to be less money then other non-tox, soft like Bismuth, and the density of lead.
3-You can replace most American double stocks for $175 or less at www.gun-parts.com (Bobs Gun Shop)
 
Ok, I understand the weekness of the stocks Can be an issue, but it seems there are ways of fixing that. What about steel shot, is the hysteria liability driven or are there many documented failures of barrels used with modern steel loads, wads etc? What if Briley chokes are installed?
 
For steel shot,first call Briley and ask.He probably would install thin walled chokes,that may not be suitable for steel.If you don't reload,you may be limited to shooting the highest priced classic shotshells.
 
I am not advocating doing so, but in my open chambered old doubles, I will shoot non-fast steel shot in small pellets and know a number of people who do so as well. But for the most part I shoot the speciality shells, over the years I have picked up any bismuth or TM that I find on sale. Don't know anything about putting choke tubes in, but no matter if you do, you still need to be concerned with pressures of the loads, especially fast steel stuff.

as Mike point out you can get stocks cheap for any of the 3, but unless your skilled at inletting a new stock, it will cost upwards of $1000 plus to get a Smith stocked from scratch. I just got an estimate on a speciality grade smith for $1700. Most stock gun smiths can do wonders with repairing orginal stocks that are cracked, but you will generally find the cost you put into the gun never realized in its long term value. I would recomend finding a gun with no or minimal stock issues and have preventive glass bedding done.
 
good condition shotable fox sterlingworths are going for 1000 to 1500 and are great shooting guns. foxes also have way less moving (potentially breakable) parts. and as far as shooting no-tox a company called RST make shells with "nice-shot" i think is the spelling that is approved. 75 bucks gets you 25 rounds. these loads are specially made for old doubles and are low pressure rounds.

have you checked gunsamerica, gunbroker or auction arms?

eddie
 
I am not planning on shooting any gun to pieces, but was simply warned that that was what would happen and was trying to corroborate this point. The crux of the matter is that I would like to find a classic double and shoot it as it was meant to be shot. Something not too rare or expensive but relatively durable, I hunt a bunch and I dont pamper guns. That said, the kicker is this, due to location even local target shooting is with steel ( skeet fields abut a tidal pond) Thus, any concerns about boutique amo are not for me, If i am going to ruin the collector value of my gun by chewing up the barrels in a cosmetic way, I dont care. If I risk a cracked stock down the line, I will fix it. BUT, if the gun is likely to explode or some other catastrophe due to steel shot or modern (read of the shelf) loads up to and including # 2, then I need to change tacks.
 
By long term value I meant buying a $500 gun putting $1000+ into the stock, now you have $1500+ into a $1000 gun, and you will not get your money out of it for years. Whearas you buy a $1000 gun with no stock problem, have it glass bedded, you will be fine if you decide to sell it. I own only four modern guns and they don't get used much, almost everything I hunt with is a vintage gun, so I understand what your trying to do.

My current everyday duck gun is a 1926 LC smith Long Range, they were orginally chambered for 3" and built like a tank. I actually own 2, one 8.3/4lbs the other 7 3/4lbs, both frames and barrels would withstand any modern load if I choose to shoot them. But both are choked Xfull/Xfull so I don't shoot steel in them. Finding one of these guns is tough as there weren't many made so prices have really started going up on them when I do see one for sale. Right now, I am looking to add another vintage duck gun for layout hunting, it will heavier weight Parker or Smith with cut barrels(so no chokes) to shoot steel out of it. But it will only be off the shelf steel 2 3/4", regular speed, 4's-7's, 2 3/4" 2's wouldn't be the best patterning load anyways. I recomend looking for something similar, don't mess with the featherweight Smith's, and look for a 2 frame or larger parker, both should be had for under $1000 currently. Fox may have a inexpensive heavier framed gun as well. Have a quality gunsmith check it over, glass bed the stock, feed it lower pressure loads open up the chokes or have briley install choke tubes and you shouldn't blow it to pieces. Most of the new high speed steel pressures are dangerously high anyways and your taking a chance with modern gun as it is.
 
I have used my 1907 Lefever for duck and pheasants the last few years. I use 1 1/8oz #5 Bismuth loads for ducks over decoys and it has been fine. I'm distressed to hear there is no more Bismuth, I don't know what I will do now. Didn't Steve Sutton paste a link to a guy who was importing old English waterfowl guns that were not real pretty but appeared functional and classic?
 
Before I spent 75 bucks on a box of shells, I'd use my bow and arrow. There is supposed to be some new shot coming on board if the rumors are correct. I personally will only buy it if it's offered in bulk for reloading. I used Hevishot reloads last season in my old 11-48 28ga with no barrel scratching/bulging problems and that was with a regular-ish wad. I think, you could roll your own Hevi loads for these old war horses if you open the chokes and use 6-7 1/2 shot size. Load it with a mild charge, regular wad with a Mylar wrap inside the wad..keep it about 1100-1150fps and you will turn ducks inside out at decoy ranges.
 
http://sinkbox.com/ John,here is the site for Sinkbox supply,where you will find used Waterfowl SxSs,mostly english.You have more options if you load your own,using steel and protected shot colums,with low pressure like Lee does.Anything in the 1200fps range will make clean kills.The souped up stuff just gets there a millisecond sooner.
 
Perry, usually a picture is worth a thousand words....but......please explain. Choke constriction? What gun? What load?What shot? Circumstances?
 
heavy frame foxes are called "super fox" and i cant find one for sale anywheres. they wont be cheap either and by cheap i mean under $2k. if your cleaver and find a fox sterlingworth "waterfowl" model, thats a super fox under a different name. it was made from left over super fox parts.

yea that stuff is expensive. im not planing on shooting it that much so i could do a box or 2 a year.

ps i get my fox back from being glass bedded and having the chambers opened, sunday!!!!! i cant wait.

eddie
 
Ed, how many birds did you get with it last season? What are you opening the bores to? Are you having the forcing cones lengthened too?. I had so much fun with my 28 ga last season, I was thinking of getting some of those chamber mates for my LeFever but have visions of the wad opening up 1/2 way down the barrel exposing the hevi shot to the bore.
 
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