Back Yard Boat Builder

D

Darren P

Member
My name is Chief Warrant Officer Darren Pauly with the US Coast Guard Office of Boating Safety in the branch responsible for Recreational boat manufacturer compliance with federal regulations and my goal here is to introduce myself, educate members, and set the record straight. I’m a member of this Forum and I read with fascination some of the misinformation exchanged regarding the building of boats and the misuse of the Back Yard Boat Builder term. The definitions found in 33 CFR 181.3 only defines a manufacturer and not a Backyard Builder. This was a Coast Guard policy many years ago so a non-professional builder, building ONE boat for themselves could build boats safely and used for recreational purposes. Someone claiming to be a Backyard Boat Builder is still required to build the boats to meet federal requirements including capacity label, flotation, and Hull Identification Numbers amongst many other things they are just not inspected by us. Soem use this term as a way to get around complying with the regulations. If you are truly a Backyard Boat Builder, you will go to the state for your HIN. Some states will inspect the boats, some don't. If you build more than ONE boat for sale, trade, or exchanged in other monetary ways, then you are a manufacturer and need to comply with the Coast Guard regulations. I know many people do not follow the rules. When you register as Manufacturer, you agree to build safe boats that meet all the applicable regulations and you will be inspected by us every few years. It’s free plus you can bring a completed boat to our facility for testing, also free. I read on here about certain people building boats for many years with no incidents. I read on here people building boats all their life and feel the boats are safe and reliable. I can tell you from my two years in this office (25 years total) and viewing many boat tests, only one duck hunting type boat passed the first time tested. I also receive weekly boating accident reports and this time of year, unfortunately, there are many cases of accidents and fatalities involving duck hunters. If the webmaster is ok with it, I will start posting weekly duck hunting accident information in hopes you can learn from it and be safe when hunting. If you have questions about the regulations and how they apply to you, call me at (202) 372-1077 or IM me here at the Forum. http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boat_builders_handbook_and_regulations.aspx




 
Darren,

First off welcome! We have many knowledgable and credible individuals here, but always welcome another.

Second off, I am guessing your commentary is mostly in regards to the recient Schellinger thread. I was keeping an eye on it, and as stupid as some comments are, it was far more civil than the last one (which I had to delete about half the replies as it turned into a "you're a fag"..."no, you're a fag" contest...) Schellinger obviously has his fans, and has built many boats, and although they do look fast, I'm sure there is some exageration involved in a boat going 40mph with an 8 hp motor.

Eric would be the "webmaster" here, but I'll give it a tentative 'okey-dokey' stamp to post the reports. You cannot be too careful out there...dark, cold and wet is a deadly combination.

Best
Chuck

PS, could you adjust your user name to reflect your real name or some derivative of it, thanks.
 
Thank you for your post. To many people don't care to know the laws regarding boat building and fail to adhere to them. We choose to follow the USCG standards with all our products and always will.
Glad to see your here, now ya just need to hop on a few other sites as well.
 
Sir

Perhaps you can answer a question. I see brand name jon boats being built without flotation. The fisherman/clammers call them "commercial" boats. They have no flotation and I don't recall a HP limit either. Why are these boats exempt?

Eric Patterson
 
Welcome Darren, I'm glad and appreciative that you have chosen to participate. Like any community, the forum is made up of a diversity of members, but a large part of the long-term core membership are those very interested in boat building and place a premium upon building with safety. For those of us with a keen interest in building with safety as a focus, it will be great to have your take on how to adhere to USCG standards in our builds. I've seen far too many crazy safety issues on otherwise well-built home built boats that I know it will benefit us all to have your participation.

Please consider changing your profile name to better reflect our profile name convention (usually full real name) AND to convey your credentials which happen to be very relevant.

Thanks,

Tod
 
Tod, I may not be able to answer every question but I know where to find the answers and I have civilian engineers in my office that have been doing this for many years that would be glad to assist. If you are looking for recreational boat building information look at the Boat Builders Handbook at www.uscgboating.org under the Regulations tab or Google Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders. These two references have all the information you need to build a boat that meets federal requirements. If you are a manufacturer, you will need to obtain a Manufacturer Identification Code (MIC) from me or anyone else in my office. Soon after obtaining a MIC one of our Factory Inspectors will visit you. They are not there to hammer you. They are there to assist you with understanding the regulations and hopefully prevent any significant safety issues. This website www.safeafloat.com has info on our Factory Visit Program.
 
Sir

Perhaps you can answer a question. I see brand name jon boats being built without flotation. The fisherman/clammers call them "commercial" boats. They have no flotation and I don't recall a HP limit either. Why are these boats exempt?

Eric Patterson I'm going to guess that he is going to tell you that commercial boat is a slippery slope. I asked at the test facilaty and they said don't get me started. There have been some issues no doubt.
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Glad to have you here! I will take facts over opinions any day of the week and twice on Sunday...
 
I was afraid the Commercial vs Recreational question would come up. Its not an easy question to answer. We call it the Lethal Loophole that we are addressing with manufacturers, dealers, and states. Watch the video at www.safeafloat.com. The public thinks that a boat manufactured to commercial standards is a safer boat but that is far from the truth. Its a misconception that has caused serious harm to people and caused a lot of sunk boats. We've actually bought and tested a "commercial" boat and it failed the test terribly. We knew it would but we needed to make a point that these boats are unsafe when used recreationally. I had a call the other day from a professional bass fisherman that was preparing for a large tournament. His boat was denied into the tournament because it was rated commercial. The tournament organizers knew it did not meet the proper safety regulations. The regulations for flotation, HIN's and other safety items are for recreational only. Some manufacuters think they can call their boats "commercial" and then do not have to comply with flotation and other regulations which is fine if its truely commercial. But thats not whats happening. They are selling to anyone for any type of use. HINS are for rec boats and its our view if it has a HIN then it must meet all recreational standards. Some manufacturers will say its commercial and put a HIN on it which is misleading the public and illegal. If it does not have a HIN you should not be able to register the boat with the state. Some states don't care and thats another issue. If someone wants to build a "commercial" boat then it is used strictly for commercial purposes and will not ever make its way into the rec world. A commercial boat in our view is one that is used by the Army Corps of Engineers, a tender on a OSV, or other type of work boat. Once you use it for hunting, fishing, joy riding, whatever, its a rec boat. Companies will claim to be commercial but will sell to anyone. We have been cracking down on this loophole. We have forced a major outdoor retailer to not sell a certain make because they were marked commercial but the store would sell to anyone. Now they sell to the public the same brand but the model that meets recreational guidelines. We have stopped a boat dealership from selling boats marked commercial. The dealer didn't know any better and was selling these unsafe boats to anyone that had the money. This question comes up almost daily and its not an easy answer. As long as there is the loophole, people will expoit it by building unsafe boats. We are addressing it with manufacturers and states. Go to www.safeafloat.com and watch the Lethal loophole video. v/r CWO Darren Pauly, (202) 372-1077
 
Welcome, and thank you for your input.

That's useful information about the commercial vs. recreational issue, but it begs the question of why the standards should be different. Safe is safe, and, if anything, commercial boats are a lot more likely to be used in marginal conditions where things like floatation are going to save lives.

Why the difference?
 
Forty years ago when the Boating Safety Act was signed commercial boats were truely commercial boats and there purpose was not an issue. Commercial boats were work boats or larger vessels not a 16 ft aluminum jon boat. Now the lines are blurred and exploited by people trying to make a buck. Some manufacturers think that they can call themselves commercial, put a sticker inside saying they do not meet CG standards, and sell to anyone or a dealer can sell to anyone. The idea that a warning label absolves them of any laibility is being studied. Its an issue we are looking closely at. v/r CWO Pauly
 
I'd rather not say to much specific about companies, good or bad. Its better to be vague and stick to the regulations instead of naming names.
 
Darren,

Thank you for posting. The information you have provided is very much appreciated. I believe you're taking the right approach to the duckboat question. There are many duckboat manufacturers who are members here. Hopefully that manufacturer is still in business. I'm sure that company knows which boat pasted and which didn't. I imagine just like any manufacturer if they feel that could increase sales they will proudly come forward and offer this information. I look forward to reading the accounts you have mentioned on the accidents. Unfortunatley we had accident on opening morning here in Illinois that took two lives. Not boat related and not everyone would have survived but only one was wearing a PFD on a foggy morning. Please be careful out there. Slow down. Know your limitations and wear your PFD's.
 
Darren, thanks for your input but when it comes to safety being vague is the last thing we need. I think it's safe to say the majority of the members here are responsible and safety minded and a good portion of us have built or plan on building a boat. I can't see how the one manufacturer that passed the test would take exception to their company being mentioned in a positive way. Perhaps you could tell us the hull type/boat style? It seems a little far fetched that with the number of manufacturers out there that only one duck hunting type boat could pass these tests but I guess we'll have to take your word for it.
 
Darren, thanks for your input but when it comes to safety being vague is the last thing we need. I think it's safe to say the majority of the members here are responsible and safety minded and a good portion of us have built or plan on building a boat. I can't see how the one manufacturer that passed the test would take exception to their company being mentioned in a positive way. Perhaps you could tell us the hull type/boat style? It seems a little far fetched that with the number of manufacturers out there that only one duck hunting type boat could pass these tests but I guess we'll have to take your word for it.
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He said that only one duck boat Manufacturer passed the first time. I think he is saying that the others that did not pass the first time around had to make changes to make there duck boats pass the coast gaurd testing and after the changes were made then be retested. That only one passed the first time and didn't need to make changes to meet the Coast Gaurds standards and requirements for Recreational boats.
 
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