Battery Question

Carl

Well-known member
Staff member
Anyone ever use a riding lawn mower battery to start their small outboard?

I've got a bad cell in my mini-deep cycle that I use to start my 18 hp 2 stroke. After a week or so, it wont hold enough charge to start the motor. Can probably get by just recharging it the night before hunts but I need to replace it soon.

I use it to start the motor as well as to run my lights, FF and spotlight. Spotlight rarely gets used when the motor is not running except to ward off other boats. Lights are on for 1 hour max, mostly when the motor is running, after that the boat is in the duck blind. FF stays on for a while put draws little power.

Dimension & weight-wise, this mini-deep cycle battery is about the same as the riding mower batteries, just has different amp rating, reserve, etc. But the mower battery is 1/2 the price.

Given how I use it, do you think the mower battery will hold up to duck boat use/abuse?
 
Hmmmmmmm, so.......you wanna trust your life (perhaps) to a cheap battery. Not me.
But then, thats just MHO. :)
Lou
 
Dont seem to be getting much service from the expensive ones!
This deep cycle didnt last two years (just long enough to be out of warranty, dont yah figure?).

Boat has pull start so not worried about starting in a bind.
 
Carl,

I use a diehard garden and lawn tractor battery for a 20hp honda. the honda has a built in charger. I think the battery is just a year or year and a half old. never had any problems with it.
 
Carl,

Deep cycle batteries are not designed for the high amp draw that the starter draws.

Lawn mower batteries are not designed to be drawn way down, time after time after time.

Car batteries are not designed for the bouncing and physical shock a boat gives it.

When you are using one battery for mixed uses, you have to decide which is the lesser of two evils. Based on your description and my own personal experience I would recommend a "marine starting battery". If you had included a trolling motor on your equipment list the recommendation would switch to a marine deep cycle.

A "lawn mower" battery may work well for you if you are starting a smaller motor. Best thing there would be to compare the amp draw for your starter to the amp draw for mowers using this size battery. The only unknown for me would be, I don't know rugged they are built shock wise ( see comment about car batteries)

Actually you might want to check batteries for personal watercraft. (A) small (B) made for boating environment (C)made for starter motors

Just make sure to charge it up to a full charge between trips. The charging circuit on your boat motor usually won't keep up when you start adding additional draw beside just starting the motor, especially if most of the time is under 3/4 throttle. The charging circuit on you boat motor does not put much amperage out at all when running much below 3/4 throttle.
 
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Dave,
All good points, I will take a look at the personal watercraft batteries.
Thanks!
 
I use a jetski batttery for my lights but I only have the one stern light and the red/green bow light. I've only charged it once this season so far but I don't use the lights much. My spots are close. Now that the coastal is open, I will probably charge after every trip. The jetski batteries run 50-60 dollars.

I bought a diehard marine starting from Kmart for my trolling motor. I charge it before every use. It was reasonable at 70-80 dollars but it's only a 500 CCA. The 600+ models were about $160 and about 1/4 to 1/3 bigger. So far no problems but then again I don't use them much or for extended periods of time. I only use the trolling motor in the backwater where I don't want to run my motor because the tide is out. I care more about a $1400 Yammy than a $130 trollong motor.
 
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Carl, I've used the same lawn and garden battery for about five years now without any problems. In the off season I leave it on a Battery Tender Jr. I has never failed me. I do however have a pull start just incase............................Save the money and use it elsewhere..........................Best of luck, Kevin
 
Or a motorcycle or ATV battery. These are usually cheaper than a jetski type of battery as anything with "marine" on it is quite expensive. Just a thought.

Mark W
 
Carl,
Yes, and I am happy with it. I use a U1P-7 lawmower battery, usually from Walmart. Used to cost $20, just bought one for $25 this weekend. I get about 12-14 months out of them running lights and GPS, and replace them when the lights start going dim on a hunt. No starter on my 25 yamaha, unfortunately, so I have to occasionally recharge with the battery charger every couple of hunts. They are much lighter than a full size trolling motor/marine battery, and probably pay for themselves in AA GPS battery savings. Been told by many experts that a deep cycle would be better, but it seems that every type of battery I ever owned died within a month after warrenty expiration... Guess I should add that they are 12 month batteries.

Take care!
-Bill
 
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I think you got some good advice from Huntin Dave. Any battery for any boat should be replaced after three years. If you are using them up before that time, you are not getting the right battery for your application. If you are using them after that amount of time, you are waiting for a failure that may come at a bad time-unless you can pull start your motor. The easiest thing to do is buy one from the store that sold you the motor if possible, you are more likely to get a battery that suits your needs. Deep cycle batteries are designed to be drained and charged-I think it is 100-150 times(cycles). Starting batteries are built to give you more cranking amps and are built to hold a charge(from your alternator). If you can't find a battery at a marine store or it is not convenient to do so, you might want to look in to a motorcycle battery, it should have the CCA you are looking for.
 
Aren't deep cycle batteries the ones that ought to be used for trolling motors? And what exactly do you mean by "cycle"? Each draining and charging is one cycle? If that's the case, that doesn't seem like they'd last very long if you used them heavily...did a lot of fishing and hunting and used the trolling motor for both applications, especially if you're dealing with a lot of currents in using your trolling motor. Seems to me that in less than a year that battery would be useless...

Dani
 
Carl, Carl, Have you thought of this.... How is your wife going to cut the lawn if you take the battery out of the lawn mower....( : )

 
Carl,
just got off the phone with a High End Alternator company about a question similar to yours.

Their words, "Batteries dont die, they are murdered."

Most owners do OK at buying a good battery but spend little time or money on its maint. A good charger is required as the boats stator isnt going to charge the thing back properly. And a 1 amp trickle maintainer is going to do it no justice when plugged in to the thing all year.

Batteries need to be stored on a full charge and should be cycled monthly when in storage for best life.

If left on its face for a long sit and then trickled back it will not give good service.

A charger like a Dual Pro SS1 is going to be more dollars but will keep your batt. in good shape for when you need it.


I do understand the budget issue but maint. of good stuff helps keep it in service.
 
Carl,

Here is what I use : http://www.optimabatteries.com/optima_products/bluetop/index.php Expensive, yes, but they are made for the pounding in a boat. It's been under the front deck of my BB3 for 5 years now and isn't showing any signs of degrading. I start a 30 hp 2 stroke, run a Lowrance sonar/GPS, Nav lights and a spot on occasion.

With a lawn mower battery you can go cheap or even upgrade to just adequate but don't fool yourself that you have the best battery for your needs. There is a big difference in batteries based on their intended use. Get one made for your application.
 
Discharged with a load and then recharged.


A light bulb works for the load if you need one.

Discharged for a lead acid battery is 12.0 volts at rest. Charged is from 12.6 to 12.8 at rest. AGM and spiral batteries dont need water added but still need cycling and charging to keep that performance or sulphation sets in.

A digital volt meter is helpful to monitor what is going on.

This is a lot of stuff to keep track of but if you want to get the life you have to keep the thing working and maintained.
 
Bob,

along your lines of thinking, Nigel Calder has an excellent book out about boat maintenance (way more than the average duck hunter needs, more for power boat/cruisers) but his treatse on battery maintence and related topics is well worth the read. I treat my batteries totally different than previously.

Carl, I agree with Pete. Then again, I hunt pretty big water so I don't want to have any issues.
 
Bob B- what is "cycled" monthly? Charged monthly? Thanks. Let me reach way back to school..... ------ Wet cell batteries (car batteries and the like) turn two dis-similar metals submerged in acid into electrical energy by a chemical reaction. There are two different types of plates in each cell. They are made up of (1) lead peroxide and (2) sponge lead, which is porous. Each cell creates 1.5 volts and 8 are connected in series to create a total of 12 volts. ------------------ The grids of each of the places is made from cast lead then covered with a paste (like peanut butter) that hardens. One plate is covered with (1) above and alternates with (2) and so on. There are two things that batteries do not like. One is heat, the other is vibration (or pounding). Marine batteries have changed the chemical composition of the elecrolyte (sulfuric acid) to make it thicker. When the "peanut butter" (dried and hardned) flakes off of the grids and wedges between two of the plates, that particular cell has been shorted. This will drain your battery when it sits around (it is a current draw just like leaving the lights on). Those flakes are usually small and each one cannot carry much current- sometimes they do. Too many of those and your battery needs replacement. Pounding around in a boat can cause this. --------------------- Some batteries are designed to be charged up, then used before being recharged (deep cycle). Some batteries cannot stand that sort of treatment. When a battery discharges, it takes electrons from the lead peroxide plate and deposits in onto the sponge lead plate. This causes a chemical change in the lead peroxide, called sulfate. Lead Sulfate is a hard, non-porous material that is non reversible. You may have heard the term "Sulfated battery." Therefore, a automotive battery that is used as a "deep cycle" (boat) battery will become sulfated over time. What that causes is a battery that is 90% or its original storage capacity, or 60% or 20% etc. ----------------- Cranking amps is a measure of how much current (not voltage) your battery is able to supply at one time. This used to be rated in amp/hours. Now they just say cold cranking amps. Actually, A typical car battery can supply, say 300 amps for 20 seconds. By then your car should have started. Most cars start after 2 to 3 seconds of cranking. After too much of that amperage traveling around, the wires heat up, the battery heats up, the plates inside of the cells become depleted. After all of that is over, the sulfuric acid works on the plates to reverse the electron flow you just made. The electrolyte depletes rapidly and needs more help (you will notice that if you wait a few minutes, you can get some more "cranking" out of your "dead" battery. This is because of the chemical reaction-- which takes time). When the engine starts, the alternator recharges your battery by a reverse flow of electrons at about 14.6 volts, thus re-charging your battery. By the way, most outboard motors only charge at about 10 amps. They are not designed to charge your battery. AS stupid as that sounds, they were designed to keep your battery charged. There is a subtle difference there. If you come out to your boat and it is dead, take the battery out and charge it up properly. Unless you are making a 5 hour run, your battery will not be "full." ---------------------- Lets talk "deep cycle batteries." Deep cycle batteries were not made to be completely discharged, like the name implies. "Deep Cycle" was a trade name used by Delco (I think) to sell marine batteries when they first came out. Deep cycle batteries can take more of a drain than an automotive battery can, but not that much. Deep cycle bateries, automotive, and gel cell batteries require different types of chargers to work at peek effeciency. Some chargers are what we used to call trickle chargers, some need rapid charging at firs, then taper down to a trickle, some need to maintain a particular VOLTAGE in order to regulate the AMPERAGE on the charge. Those two terms are many times interchanged by people who are not into electricity, I have found. A cycle is simply going full circle from the charger, through a load (lights on for however long) then back to the charger. ---------------------- Your battery will drain by itself if given enough time. That is why cousin Billy's car in the back yard needs a jump every spring. By the way, jumping a battery only gives it a surface charge (energized plates) but the electrolyte is still neutral. They used to tell us that it takes approx 100 hours (4 days or so)to fully charge a completely dead battery at one amp. When a battery is receiving a charge, it creats heat. Heat is resistance to current flow. This is called internal resistance. Internal resistance is a force acting against the battery charger. The heat will boil the electrolyte, but not FULLY charge the plates. That is why it needs to be done slowly. Rapid, or jump chargers will never FULLY charge a battery, but they will get you up to about 80%. One other thing that comes to mind: A fully charged battery will have strong electrolyte (acid). As the battery discharges, the electrolyte becomes more water, less acid. A discharged battery can actually freeze in cold weather. --------------------------- Anything that limits current flow (voltage drop) will cause your battery to be less than fully charged. Clean battery terminals are part of this. Putting grease on them doesn't help. Grease is a non-conductor. Grease will keep the green crap from growing on the terminal, but it doesn't help the battery. Maintenance helps the battery. "Splash" from a boiling battery that lands on top of the battery can conduct current flow, leading to a discharged (or partially discharged) battery. Pouring water/baking soda on the top, then rinsing with clear water will remove this. ----------------------- So, to make a long story longer.... You can use any battery you want, so long as it meets your requirements, is serviced and stored properly. Some will last longer than others. If you are in a duck boat going 3 miles an hour for 1/2 mile twice a week, I think you can do nicely with any automitive battery, or even a lawn mower battery provided you know your limitiations. I personally would get a gel cell and keep it for years. Others perfer to get a new, cheaper one every year. Its all good. You STILL have a pull-rope, right? ---------------------- I fear I have bored everyone, but that is about all I know about batteries. It's a throw back to my last lifetime. (Master mechanic for General Motors- 14 years). Dave ------------------ For some reason, I can't get spaces between paragraphs (sorry).
 
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