Bending cedar to form....

R

Rob_F

Active member
Quick question:

Am I better off to soak cedar before bending/clamping to fit, then machine, then attach, OR just go with the clamps to hold everything into place, machine it, and skip any soaking.

Working a 1" x 2" rail around an old Herter's canoe I'm doing some conversion on.

Very best,

Rob
 
Good morning, Rob~

I am having a bit of trouble visualizing this project. Is this a rubrail - with a fairly easy bend ? Or is it a forward coaming with a really tight radius ? If you are soaking the wood so it will take a tight radius, it will need to dry thoroughly (inside and out) before any machining. So, you might want to machine the edges prior to soaking.

And, by "machining", do you mean cutting it to length ? or putting on a profile - like a rounded edge ? et cetera?

Another question: If a rubrail, why are you using Cedar and not something a bit tougher?

So, if I understand the task to be installing new rubrails on the outside of the gunwale, here is how I typically proceed:

1. I bevel the bottom edge of the rubrail on the table saw - maybe 10 or 15 degrees off square so it will shed water when stored upside down. I do not round over the lower edge.

2. I clamp the rail to the gunwale This is where I trim the ends for length. If I want to shape the ends, I take them off the boat and do the shaping on the bench.

3. I set my rails in 3M 5200. This very strong waterproof adhesive caulk fills any gaps but also imparts strength to the combined rail and hull assembly. It also prevents moisture from getting in between the rail and hull.

4. I fasten the rails - ideally from the inside of the boat - through the hull and into the rail. I often use panhead screws to keep the screw heads from pulling through the hull (whether it is wood or 'glass). If fastening through a soft Cedar hull, I might even add flat washers - or use a finish washer/flathead screw combination.

3. I typically round over the top edge of the rail right on the boat - although it could be done earlier on the bench. Either way, I use a router with a round-over bit, 3/8" or 1/2". Once the rail is on, though, I usually smooth the top edge of the rail with a belt sander - after the 5200 is fully cured (about 1 week). So, if I am going to round over the edge on the boat, I wait until the 5200 has cured and I have faired off the top surface on which the router will ride.

I hope this is pertinent to your needs - and that it is helpful.

SJS
 
Thank you Steve. It is a rub rail. After working the project a bit longer I moved away from soaking. None of the radius is that severe and the clamps worked great.

"Machining"- the drilling, cutting, moulding, etc.

I purchased the 3M 5200 before I had any of the wood :-) also determined I'd cut the rails to length on the boat once things started taking shape.

Why cedar: familiarity, availability and ease of use.

The most I've done on a boat before is a new transom board on an aluminum and replace a carrying yoke. This project is a complete learning tool/prototype. It will be my first use of fiberglass/resin/epoxy, first time with 5200, etc.

My tools are reciprocating saw, hand saw/mitre box, electric hand saw, radial arm saw, electric drill. A table saw would be a nice addition, but going with what I have. "Pain" is an excellent learning tool, helps with "resourcefulness".

As a neophyte I have very low expectations for my completed work on this at the start and high anticipation of errors that may cost a piece of lumber or two. All my lumber is "serviceable", not necessarily best in class, but it can be picked up on a whim and a 10 minute drive. I visited the lumber yard with the best in class woods, but that takes a visit on their time, a plan/materials list and the tools/experience to treat the wood with the respect it deserves.

Essentially: I don't cry if someone orders a sirloin Med Well/Well done.... but a Filet Mignon, I will defend the meat!

I've always worked best starting from theory and working progressively forward. Rote lessons and I have never seen eye to eye, I'm the guy that sees Ikea instructions as an intrusion to solving the puzzle I purchased.

When I search this sight and follow threads like your current reconditioning project I'm much more apt to study the "why" than the "how". Things like oar lock weeps and beveled bottom rub rails, foam flotation rather than air chambers, routered motor mounts.... of themselves are spectacular"do this", together they are "think boat".

A project like this lets me learn the "how" through affordable trial and error. I typically learn best in "fast fail" environments: low cost, iterative.

I used to be an "all in" person, but maturity taught me I get more satisfaction from the experience than the finished product.

If this project ends up with functional utility from what would have been scrap, then success will have been achieved. The ability to learn and understand the "why".... I guess is my Mt Everest.
 
Rob,

This is one of my all time favorite posts. Not because of the project but rather on account of the self awareness and message. "I get more satisfaction from the experience than the finished product."

Thanks

Thank you Steve. It is a rub rail. After working the project a bit longer I moved away from soaking. None of the radius is that severe and the clamps worked great.

"Machining"- the drilling, cutting, moulding, etc.

I purchased the 3M 5200 before I had any of the wood :-) also determined I'd cut the rails to length on the boat once things started taking shape.

Why cedar: familiarity, availability and ease of use.

The most I've done on a boat before is a new transom board on an aluminum and replace a carrying yoke. This project is a complete learning tool/prototype. It will be my first use of fiberglass/resin/epoxy, first time with 5200, etc.

My tools are reciprocating saw, hand saw/mitre box, electric hand saw, radial arm saw, electric drill. A table saw would be a nice addition, but going with what I have. "Pain" is an excellent learning tool, helps with "resourcefulness".

As a neophyte I have very low expectations for my completed work on this at the start and high anticipation of errors that may cost a piece of lumber or two. All my lumber is "serviceable", not necessarily best in class, but it can be picked up on a whim and a 10 minute drive. I visited the lumber yard with the best in class woods, but that takes a visit on their time, a plan/materials list and the tools/experience to treat the wood with the respect it deserves.

Essentially: I don't cry if someone orders a sirloin Med Well/Well done.... but a Filet Mignon, I will defend the meat!

I've always worked best starting from theory and working progressively forward. Rote lessons and I have never seen eye to eye, I'm the guy that sees Ikea instructions as an intrusion to solving the puzzle I purchased.

When I search this sight and follow threads like your current reconditioning project I'm much more apt to study the "why" than the "how". Things like oar lock weeps and beveled bottom rub rails, foam flotation rather than air chambers, routered motor mounts.... of themselves are spectacular"do this", together they are "think boat".

A project like this lets me learn the "how" through affordable trial and error. I typically learn best in "fast fail" environments: low cost, iterative.

I used to be an "all in" person, but maturity taught me I get more satisfaction from the experience than the finished product.

If this project ends up with functional utility from what would have been scrap, then success will have been achieved. The ability to learn and understand the "why".... I guess is my Mt Everest.
Click to expand...
 
I always wonder why folks choose 5200 over 4200? 5200 is permanent. If you ever want to remove that rubric bonded with 5200, chances are you are going to take parts of the canoe with it. 4200 offers almost the same bonding strength with the added luxury of being removable at some point in time if desired.

I know 5200 has the reputation but 4200 should be a viable alternative to consider.

Mark W
 
Rob~

I agree with Mr. Meisenheimer - I really appreciate your thoughtful response. I am another member of "the journey is the destination" crowd - and continuing to learn is one of life's great gifts.

All the best,

SJS
 
Rob, I plan a little first then dive in . Usually ones questions get answered and learned by how NOT do something after it has been tried. cant tell you how many projects started with an idea. a little head scratching, sitting down in the" thinking chair," then the Eureka moment. Glad the skiff project is going well for you. Bob
 
Thanks mates.

I'll check out the 4200 as well. Guessing I'll need more than one tube of any glue stuffs.

One set of stick already returned and replaced.... I love it when a plan comes together. Will post pics at a later time.

Best,

Rob
 
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