Bilge pumps and cold weather

Scott Farris

Scott Farris

Well-known member
Do you wicked cold fresh water guys find your bilge pumps useful?


frozenboat.jpg



I’m kicking off a major outboard overhaul and as part of the overhaul I’m adding an electric starter kit. As such I will now have a battery in the 14-ft V-hull. Thoughts have shifted to wiring the boat for permanent running lights and possibly a bilge pump. The bilge pump kind of scares me because I do a lot of my late season hunting in temperatures that don’t climb above freezing, and I mean days at a time. To date I’ve always had a hand pump stashed under the seat and if the ice melts with the boat in the water, I use the hand pump. My fear is that the plastic strainer/mounts won’t hold up to the repeated freeze / thaw cycles and the pump itself will simply be in the way the majority of the time. During warm weather I would think having the bilge pump would be beneficial but how much water do I take in when it isn’t off the wet dog or in the form of ice and snow?

Your pro and horror stories dealing with bilge pumps and sub freezing temperatures would be greatly appreciated.
Scott
 
Scott
size the wire for three percent voltage drop at 12 v. and fuse it at the ratting of the pump. I would only use a switched pump (Johnson or Rule) and can in no situation recommend a computerized one. I like WaterWitch switches. (Defender) But they can be tricked by supper clean rain water(Not likley in a duck boat)
Second is a Rule supper switch(Grudgingly). Best float made is the Ultra Switch but they go $100 or more.
The pump can freeze and live. Seen it way to many times. But the fuse will be the protection if the switch is powering a froze vane.
It will work well if the salt water is close to freezing. Fresh will give you more trouble, but a sunny day will get it going more than you might think.
Always carry a backup. And dont get sucked in like I did last month thinking the thing will not take out the battery.

PS. A Rule 3500 with 4 feet of 1 1/2" hose took way to long for my taste to drain the boat with a new battery, and as always is an eye oppener as to how whimpy a pump is when you need it in the cold with a puny 7/8 hose. Truly a rain only tool in my eyes. (for emergencies a 3" gas trash pump is what I would want.)



Call me at 860 625 1627 if I can help.
Bob.
 
Last edited:
Bob,

I will keep all your great input in mind for an upgrade to the Lund but come on for the 14 ft V-hull? In the 20+ years of running 14 ft V-hulls I have yet to need more than the 1-gal scoop bailer or the hand pump. Not saying it wouldn't have been nice to have an electric bilge pump now and again but a float switched 3600? I'm looking at a U1 battery for the starter and running lights. Unless the charging system on the Nissan is really good I think I better use the hand pump to pump her out if she has that much water in her. My strategy with the old leaking hull was beach her as high as possible. Pump her out, launch and get her beached again before it got exciting. This method worked fairly well until the day in January when I shot my first tripple and I had to launch fast before I lost the birds to the rapids. I had so much water in the old wolverine that I couldn't get up on plane, more was coming in, the rapids were below me and it was below freezing. That day I decide it was time for the new boat.

So if I add the pump to the 14-ft it will be a 750, 3/4" hose, simple on/off rocker switch with less than 5-ft of line. It will be fused per recommendations.

Now the Lund should probably have a second serious bilge pump added (with a float switch). The existing pump definitely takes longer than I want to clear the boat out. I know because twice I've launched her with the plug out D'oh!

Scott
 
Scott,

I have a bilge pump in all my boats. I have had them freeze up on me several times and they will still keep working. I have accidentaly turned the pump on without thinking. Never ruined one yet....

I do try much harder now to make sure that I splash a little antifreeze in my bilge since my boat will never pump all of the water out and when I tilt it, it still leaves a bit there.

Overall most of the time the ice melts during the day while hunting and I can pump it out with the bilge pump. It is worth it to me to have one.
 
Scott,
I think you are fine with the 750. Its what I have in my 16', I just gave the extra info if you wanted a float. I do not believe a 750 or a 1000 would help a whole lot in a holed boat however. But they work for nuisance water and a little propolyne glycol (Camco Freeze Ban) will keep the ice from getting real hard. -50 from west marine or other.
I have the pump for the rain as the boat is in the water, esp the summer. Saves a daily check for bailing, but as I found out if the switch sticks thats it for the battery. I have full flotation and no harm was done.
My point on the 3500 was only that when you need a pump....the biggest one seems small and slow. There are three ultra switches in a boat I worked on 15 years ago and still going strong. Very dirty bilge.
I have a box full of bad Rule switches.
We stock water witch but have had a few fresh water trips that it did not handle. But I like the built in, run after clear, to help finish the last of the water. Also no moving parts.





http://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param=pumpswitch_price
 
Thanks Bob,

I understand that I won't be able to fight a ripped open hull with these small bilge pumps. My main concern is whether its valuable enough to bother with. Unless it's pouring out I don't see a lot of benefit and my fear is that with out a protected location the pump will get smacked or the dog will bounce of it and the cold plastic base/strainer will shatter. In the Lund the pump is mounted under the floor and is very well protected. I had to replace my first pump after 7 years. Not great but not bad either. I have thought of a possible protected location that I will check out. There is a shelf on the port side behind the stern bench for the fuel tank. If I use a hole saw and cut a hole large enough to install the pump through the over all height of the pump may be below the shelf. I may have to box it a bit with angle if it extends above the shelf. But it's still the question of is it worth it?

Scott
 
I have always had a bilge pump in my boats. We hunt until mid January, so temps are well below freezing and sometimes below zero. The electrical part is probably the least of the problem. The bilge has to be drained completely because if you don't, the pump will be encased in ice. Dead leaves in the bilge area can cause problems also. I use a 750 and find it to be sufficient. Keep it clear of standing water and leaves and you will like having it.

Bill
 
Bill,


Thanks for the input, I am a bit familiar with NH weather, four years at the U and lived up there a couple years after grad. In fact, it’s where I started hunting but more over in the Rochester / Dover direction. The two caveats you bring up will both bite me. it's a bench seat V-hull stored outside (with cover) in the winter. It will have water in it because I won't be able to get all the ice and snow out of her. It’s very normal to start the hunt with 1+ inch of ice in back of the boat (as high as the drain plug). If she's really bad, I've been known to stick her in the garage over night to thaw a bit but that's generally as a last resort. And leaves?, not so bad but not real good either. Sticks, leaves, grass and mud all collect under the benches and work their way aft over the season. That said a pump would be nice during the non-freeze periods.
Thanks,
Scott
 
Scott during hunting season my boat is in the water no cover. I use a portable sump pump with five feet of garden hose. It makes quick work of pumping out the boat. It sure beats the gallon pail. I don't have a floor in the boat so the pump sit in the rear corner when in use. When I am done pumping just put the pump on the dock until next use. The pump is self draining so no problem with freezing. I use about a 150 ft. of extension cord for power. This set up is a real time saver at o-30 in the morning or the night before.
 
Wispete,

You have no idea how much I envy your location. While the rest of us are messing with trailers and getting on the road your already heading out. Or maybe more likely. still in bed since your travel distance is a touch less then most of us ;^)

You won't mind adopting a young man in his fifties would you?

Very best!
Scott
 
Scott:

I think it's worth it, but it's a lot of work to keep a pump running in wicked cold fresh water day after day especially if you're going to take it out of the water between hunts.

We run wicked cold fresh the last 5-7 weeks of our season depending on the year. What you see here is not snow -- it's all ice, from the dogs:

P1050383.jpg


Bilge pumps are a giant pain in the ass in those conditions, but less so than chopping through a block of ice to pull the plug when you want to get water (and weight) out of the boat. Nothing works perfect but here are some ideas that might help:

All our big boats run two pumps, one mounted at the bottom of the bilge, the other mounted a foot or so forward and a couple inches higher. I would run the same setup in a little boat too. Even when the bottom one freezes, the top one will generally stay dry and functioning, so you have some ability to deal with a lot of water coming into the boat in a hurry. Sometimes the top one will freeze too (like when you're taking a lot of spray or dogwater) but in those scenarios, usually the hull is in contact with the above-freezing water, which helps the bottom pump start to thaw out, however slightly.

Antifreeze is a must. Sometimes a case a day per boat if there's a lot of dog traffic over the gunwales or if we're hunting anchored stern-to in a big wind and taking a lot of spray. [VERY IMPORTANT--USE THE PINK, NO-TOX RV ANTIFREEZE--ANYTHING ELSE WILL POISON A DAWG]. I use the pumps as little as possible, trying to keep the antifreeze I have in there from getting too diluted with water.

Capacity-wise I like at least 750 gph and 1100 gph, each through 1 1/2" hose. I like an 1100 and a 1500 even better (big pump goes up top for an "oh shit" pump, little one down low to get as much of the water out as possible without re-flooding the bilge after it shuts off). Separate hoses, no check valves or T's because they would freeze. The rule float switches suck but the pumps themselves work fine, and it's really easy to find replacement baskets for them whether at home or on the road--any wal-mart or west marine will have them if I need to replace between hunts.

I run the rule-mate pumps (not the computerized one but the one with the mechanical switch) on three-way switches so even if one of the switches craps out, I can still force the pump to come on in a pinch. Fuses are all in a panel where I can get at them in a hurry in the dark.

Sooner or later if you keep icing the boat without any heated space to thaw it in, all that ice will catch up and the boat will no longer drain to the bilge effectively. Also, if you have a floor, every time you run water in and out, you're likely adding layers of ice (and weight) to the underside of the floor. In that shot above, there's probably a couple hundred lb. of ice under the decks, in addition to everything you see up top.

I don't have a heated garage big enough for the boat, but I do have a laundry sink with hose hookup near enough to run a hose out to the driveway. I spray hot water onto the decks and into the bilge until I get rid of most of the ice, and tilt the nose of the trailer down and run hot water up under the decks forward to get some of the weight out there. Then tilt everything back to drain (it makes a hockey rink in the driveway eh?) and dose the bilge with antifreeze so the pumps work the next a.m.

It's a PITA but it's usually worth the effort...
 
Thanks Eric.

What anti freeze do you use?

Scott
Click to expand...


the good old stuff when it is late season and if I have some on hand otherwise the pink stuff. By then the dog is not hunting with me anyhow. Otherwise the pink is good enough in the earlier season.
 
Why mount the pump? Unless you are leaving the boat in the water, why not buy a pump, rig it for use with a lighter plug, keep it somewhere out of the elements, then plug it in and drop it in the whatever puddle of water is in the boat when it's time to use it. That being said, you'll be surprised how much a beating they can take from a dog etc. When I had one in the floor instead of the bilge, it got kicked a bit and never had a problem.
 
Why mount the pump? Unless you are leaving the boat in the water, why not buy a pump, rig it for use with a lighter plug, keep it somewhere out of the elements, then plug it in and drop it in the whatever puddle of water is in the boat when it's time to use it.

__________________________________________________


__________________________________________________

That is the approach I use: portable pump with 12V plug & hose.
My bilge pump & hose stay in storage until I need it.
Which has been about twice in 8 years, both times following torential down pours dumped a pile of rain water in the boat.
 
Matthew, I like the two pump idea for the Lund (my big water boat) where the bilge pump has frozen and not been usable. Having a second above the "normal" bilge puddle is a great idea as is the anti freeze that's been mentioned a few times now. Unfortunately I'm at work so I can't see you picture (photo bucket / u-tube etc are blocked). It's almost 5 so I'll enjoy the shot soon.

Eric, thanks for following up on the anti-freeze.

Ben & Carl Why mount? Cuz I'm lazy and it can be run underway without having to hold the hose over the side or worry about keeping the pump it in position. If it's a two hand job, for the small size of the boat, I might as well stick with the manual pump.

Super input guys thanks,

Scott
 
Scott, if there's not enough water for the pump to be "in place" by just dropping it in the puddle, I doubt you "need" an electric pump. Keeping the hand pump would be cheaper and would probably work when needed more often.
 
Along the lines of draining the boat after hunting, I just came upon a new product and I have two of them on their way to me. It's a simple product but appears to be worth it. I'll let you know.
The company is in Idaho: www.tungbar.com.
Now..why didn't I think of that. ;)

Lou
 
Ben,
Yeah, that's kind of my thought, but I'm planning out the wiring and switch/fuse panel and it seems like everyone with a wired boat has a bilge pump. I'm just trying to figure out if they know something I don't. I do have a new concept for a location here the pump will be both out of the way and protected with a short lift hard piped up the transom and out my "transom plug". I will check it out over the weekend. Boats still stuffed and covered for the winter snow loads.

Lou, do give us a report on that lift bar. First thought is that is going to dig deeply into the driveway on a hot summer day. I generally slift the front wheel up on a block for added height. Not bad on the 14 and scull boat but an effort with the 20 ft due to the greater tongue wt.

Best,
Scott
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top