Cedar fence question NDR

Dwight Harley

Well-known member
I plan to put up a fence in my backyard. I thought I would ask you guys....is cedar managed as a sustainable forest product? I'm familiar with the intensive pine plantations in the south but I don't know a thing about how those cedar boards you build a deck with find their way to the sawmill.
 
I don't think much western red cedar is grown plantation style, I'm sure some is but not much with all that is used.
I would say the logging in the NW is no more harmful then the tree plantations in the SE are. (I'm sure our resident tree hugger will take exception to that but I did not actually say either was good or bad) That recycled plastic is probably the most eco friendly.
Nearly all trees are managed as a sustainable crop, it is just a matter of what age of forest you are sustaining. I doubt we will ever truly 'manage' a forest with 100+ year old trees much less 1000 year old trees. It will always be decades between logging and a maturing forest with any western logging, but it's also that way when it burns.
At least that is my thoughts.

Tim
 
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Guess what? We agree......

To my knowledge none of the "reforestation" that goes on in the West uses any "mixed forest" strategy...that means that on the Westside of the Cascades, where most of the Western Red Cedar comes from, if a clear cut is planted it is planted in DOUGLAS FIR......I could be wrong and would accept it if someone told me that in Oregon and California there were some cuts that are planted in Sugar Pine but I've not heard of any of those......so essentially, once you cut the Cedar out of an area if its going to be there in the next rotation then its going to get there on its on.....for sure that happens, and in fact until the last dozen years most clear cutting relied on leaving "seed trees" at prescribed intervals that were supposed to, and did, reseed the cut naturally, (this is actaully a better "strategy" from any standpoint other than just a "board foot of one log type" than human replanting because of the diversity of species that results).....

In reality you couldn't, at least not with any financial responsibility, keep Cedar out of a cut over area, so its going to continue to occur in the "renewable" forest that will be cut in the future.....the problem with that is that, as Tim says, if it was cut in our lifetime, its not going to be cut again until sometime LATE in your kids, or Grandkids if your Tim's age, or your GREAT Grand Kids if your Bill Wasson's age, lifetime.

Western Forests are managed differentely than Southern Forests and they grow at a much slower rate so you see cutting cycles span three, and often more, times the length of managed forests in the South.....that doesn't mean were going to run out it just means that "renewable" has to be look at differently in the West than it does in the South and East.....

A good example is the piece of propety that I live on.....It was logged in the late 30's. Today the Douglas Fir and Western Red Cedar on it has ZERO value as saw logs and only marginal, (as in I could get it cut free if I wanted it gone but wouldn't make anything on it), for veneer or pulp.....thats dang near 80 years, of almost TWO CYCLES if you're comparing it to Slash Pine in the South...and we're still another 50 plus years away from the trees being of any real value.....(and we're at a much lower altitude, and therefore have a longer growing season, than the forested areas that will someday be cut)....

For sure the days of ONE LOG LOADS are long gone even though you'll still hear the "LOG THE EARTH FIRST-WE'LL GET THE OTHER PLANETS LATER", people whining that there are trees, heck even forests, out there that contain them and that we should be cutting them. In some "rare cases" I'd agree but for the most part the "old growth" is gone and what remains would be gone in less than a dozen years if the loggers, and lovers of "one log loads", had their way. Based on the fact that whats left would be quickly gone if it was allowed to be cut I'm against subsidizing a dying lifestyle, (The NW "GYPO" LOGGER who supplies mills that haven't bothered to modernize to handle smaller stems), just to prolong their ultimate demise, but thats really not what you asked, (but you know me I'm never shy about jumping up on a 500 year old tree stump to preach.......

I'm actually all for "selective" logging, which includes, thinning, removal of "dead and dying", etc. etc. but I don't believe, as many do, that the only place "true old growth" should exist is in the National Parks.....many disagree.....I "hope" that those GREAT GRANDKIDS mentioned above will be doing the same in the future....

Steve
 
Just an FYI;
Although I understand the question was about cedar fencing, I wanted to add that I installed a 20x24 deck 7 years ago with the TREX-type boards and would highly recommend using that type of material, at least for building a deck. There are several brands and TREX is probably the most well-known but I can't remember which brand I used but it's held up perfectly.

I used the solid-boards but for a little less you can get boards that are dished out on the backside to save some money and weight. Only downside to these products is the high cost and if you use conventional deck screws to attach to the joists you need to pre-drill the holes which of course takes a lot of time. But the end result is worth it. The material itself is totally maintenance free and never splinters, cracks or warps and comes pre-dyed to the color of your choice so it never needs staining or waterproofing. Great stuff and worth the initial higher investment. Plus you can use the scraps for decoy keels!
 
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Gotta agree with Steve on this one, you can't compare the forestry practices between the SE & NW.
Down here, a pulp rotation is 20-30 years and saw timber is 50-80. There is a lot of clear cutting down here and usually loblolly is what gets planted back. We are starting to see more and more Longleaf getting re-planted, which is what the coastal plain from NC to LA was covered with when Europeans arrived.
Some of the pulp rotation "forests" here would make you sick. Pine trees planted on 10' centers with absolutley no understory or ground cover, just solid pine needles. Given that pulp prices are falling under overseas competition, many timber companies & landowners are re-concentrating on sawtimber rotation. That has much wider spacing and better bio-diversity. It also supports better deer & turkey populations, so they can get more money for the hunting leases.
 
Thanks to all of your for your comments. I guess my concern is that there might be no effort by NW loggers to regenerate cedar either by replanting or leaving seed trees. I know that a lot of clear cuts in the NW are planted to Douglas fir. I just couldn't find much information on sustainable forest practices for red cedar.
 
from it then it only makes sense to plan something that will produce the most money in the shortest time.....as Carl said, in the South thats Lobolly....in the Northwest thats Douglas Fir.....that makes Cedar, Hemlock, and several Spruce trees, "incidental", and frankly, a pain in the ass in alot of cases....

Like I said there will always be Cedar to cut, simply because its in the seed bank, because for the most part they don't thin and cull here, and also because of the extremely long cutting cycles, (compared to the Southern Pine Forests), that exists here.....

Steve
 
Well, there is Western Red Cedar(west of the Rockies) and Inland Red Cedar(east of the Rockies). The Western is much more resinous and darker colored. Most of what you find in the midwest is Inland Red. For the price of a cedar fence you could go with vinyl and not have to stain,paint or shoot woodpeckers off of it. Cedar and Redwood are both replanted and studied and cloned and hybridized for maximum yield on lumber companies lands. In the free fall lumber market, cedar has actually gone up while other species are a bargain. You can see more about cedar by going to the WWPA's(western wood producer association) website. They set the standards on grade,sizes and patterns. A wolmanized fence will last longer.
 
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