John Cottenham
Member
http://apnews.excite.com/...90722/D99JEFTG0.html Concealed carry in all states measure needs 60 votes today!
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Concealed weapos vote today
- Thread starter John Cottenham
- Start date
Ryan Werden
Well-known member
Already sent my state Senators emails urging them to support this amendment.
Dave Sikorski
Well-known member
If you want the right to concealed weapons talk your state into it. It's not the federal govt's place to tell the states what gun laws they should have.
Glad to hear it failed.
-D
Glad to hear it failed.
-D
TimJ
Well-known member
Dave,
You need to actually see what the bill said before you condemn it. It is clearly not what you think it is. States would have still had the right to not have concealed weapons and this had nothing to do with those states. All it did was say if you had a concealed permit you could go to other states who allow concealed permits. Kind of one standard instead of groups of states having agreements here and there. Most states that allow concealed weapons permits already agree to allow a lot of those properly permitted to come into their state. Wouldn't really have done as much as either side contends.
Tim
You need to actually see what the bill said before you condemn it. It is clearly not what you think it is. States would have still had the right to not have concealed weapons and this had nothing to do with those states. All it did was say if you had a concealed permit you could go to other states who allow concealed permits. Kind of one standard instead of groups of states having agreements here and there. Most states that allow concealed weapons permits already agree to allow a lot of those properly permitted to come into their state. Wouldn't really have done as much as either side contends.
Tim
Dave Sikorski
Well-known member
Either way IMO it's a states decision and not necessary for the Feds to address the issue. Let states deal with it.
Thune is a moron for bringing the issue up on the Federal level. Now the anti gun owners have more press and more idiots listening to their spin.
-D
Thune is a moron for bringing the issue up on the Federal level. Now the anti gun owners have more press and more idiots listening to their spin.
-D
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Ray
Well-known member
The Feds are supposed to control things that cross state lines, so it stands to reason that the Feds would want to have a rule on this issue.
However, if my state provides me the option of obtaining a CCW permit and my state's CCW requirements are similar to another states and both states allow for reciprosity of each others CCW permit holders then there is no point in the Federal Law. On that point I will agree with Dave.
If the anti gunners want ammo for outlawing guns they just have to read each days national headlines documenting when some emmotionally unstable person kills someone else.
Fort Lewis Washington today, Steve McNair a week or so ago, the cops in NJ last week... this one law failure won't give them any more ammo that unreasonable people don't already hand them everyday.
However, if my state provides me the option of obtaining a CCW permit and my state's CCW requirements are similar to another states and both states allow for reciprosity of each others CCW permit holders then there is no point in the Federal Law. On that point I will agree with Dave.
If the anti gunners want ammo for outlawing guns they just have to read each days national headlines documenting when some emmotionally unstable person kills someone else.
Fort Lewis Washington today, Steve McNair a week or so ago, the cops in NJ last week... this one law failure won't give them any more ammo that unreasonable people don't already hand them everyday.
TimJ
Well-known member
Who cares what the anti's will do. They already do it. They already have the media. Other then winning votes what can we do? That and in the courts is where it counts and gun owners have been winning lately.
It will be back. It was 2 votes short, needed 60, so it has a clear majority. I'm sure it would pass in the house with all the Blue Dogs.
Tim
btw Gun ownership is in the constitution so it is the place of the federal government to make sure it is not infringed upon, a clear duty of theirs. Things like speed limits, seatbelt laws, marriage, baseball and on and on are those that they should stay out of.
It will be back. It was 2 votes short, needed 60, so it has a clear majority. I'm sure it would pass in the house with all the Blue Dogs.
Tim
btw Gun ownership is in the constitution so it is the place of the federal government to make sure it is not infringed upon, a clear duty of theirs. Things like speed limits, seatbelt laws, marriage, baseball and on and on are those that they should stay out of.
Matt Vanderpan
Active member
I agree with you Tim. Baseball and BCS drive me crazy.
Dave Sikorski
Well-known member
The Feds have the right to control interstate commerce. To say that making a law that only adds a federal level to CCW legislation is a power under the commerce clause is a reach.
I'm just as pissed at our progressive society and government as the next "right wing extremist", and I'm the last one that will sit quietly. I make my share of waves, but I'm not one to waste my energy either.
There's no caving going on here. Thune could be spending his time doing something worth while.
Can anyone tell me what state to state carry laws would have changed or been affected by a new law at the federal level?
-D
I'm just as pissed at our progressive society and government as the next "right wing extremist", and I'm the last one that will sit quietly. I make my share of waves, but I'm not one to waste my energy either.
There's no caving going on here. Thune could be spending his time doing something worth while.
Can anyone tell me what state to state carry laws would have changed or been affected by a new law at the federal level?
-D
Sam
Active member
Why is any state able to restrict the basic human right to keep and bear arms that is reaffirmed by the Bill of Rights?
That we even tolerate this says alot about us. We have let the freedoms that our forefathers earned slip through our lazy fingers.
I attached a very good essay that I thought was interesting.
That we even tolerate this says alot about us. We have let the freedoms that our forefathers earned slip through our lazy fingers.
I attached a very good essay that I thought was interesting.
Dave, yes, I can tell you what would have changed.
For one I am an American, that is to say a VERMONTER, we only follow the US Constitution and the Vermont State Constitution which says " shall not be infringed" we do not have permits for anything, if you are an American carry a gun, anyway you want anywhere except in a federal building a bank or in a school. period. simple.
if you are allowed to own a handgun carry it here in Vermont, anyway you want, as long as you are an American and allowed to have it in your home state, welcome. period. simple.
Because we follow the Bill of Rights here I can't carry a handgun concealed in ANY adjoining state, because we don't have a permit to be reciprocated!
I have to go get their CCW, I have a Utah and Florida CCW which is honored in the majority of states, 40 states recognize or reciprocate each others permits already, but not any in the east, so this would have let us carry our guns without BS through their states without having to get a CCW for each damned state.
ALSO, Federal Transportation regulations state that I can cross NY state with a locked and inaccessible handgun if I am going from a point where I am legal to anohter point where I am legal, HOWEVER the Attorney General in NY CONFISCATES HANDGUNS if they are being checked as luggage at Albany International Airport, he has never prosecuted a case yet as he knows he can't win, so the case is dropped, BUT the gun does not get returned, it gets destroyed, which is the REAL agenda to begin with, annoy gun owners so they go away and curl up somewhere.
Boston's Logan airport does the same thing, on a flight from Rutland Vermont we changed planes in Logan in Boston, to a connecting flight to Pittsburg, PA, we arrived to find our handguns in their checked and approved by TSA locked cases back in Boston!
They had moved the guns from one plane to another ofcourse with the other luggage and the Boston Attorney general does the same crap that Albany NY does, steals your guns.
this is the same as you ordering a sneakbox from NJ and its shipping to you but then being taken off the truck when the truck enters Ohio and confiscated because the attorney general of Ohio doesn't like duckboats.
This bill passing would have negated ALL that BS in Boston, and Albany, and stopped all the petty tyrants who are in power in cities and towns who only feel in power when they strip the rights and freedoms from the people,,, this is your town if they keep going the way they are the last 40 years...getting worse and worse. AND it would have made common sense that if you are legal to have the gun on that side of the tree then you are legal to have it on this side of the tree too!
No one hates a strong central government more than I, but the federal law is that you have the RIGHT to keep and bear arms without infringement! and the states are over riding the federal law with infringements like permits. Go ahead and jump through hoops and get the Permit and then have each state require another hoop jump? should you ahve to buy a fishing license or hunting license for each body of water?
Accepting the permit process to be gin with is a mistake. accept that and you are saying Sure, not only SHOULD the government decide what I can and can't do, but they KNOW BEST what is right for me.
Yesterday your rights were limited, INFRINGED, on firearms, today you are told you can't say certain things if they offend someone, maybe the President, tomorrow you will be told what God you can or can not pray to in your own living room.
It's not about smoking, its not about seatbelts, its not about permits and firearms , It Is About FREEDOM and your Right to that freedom.
For one I am an American, that is to say a VERMONTER, we only follow the US Constitution and the Vermont State Constitution which says " shall not be infringed" we do not have permits for anything, if you are an American carry a gun, anyway you want anywhere except in a federal building a bank or in a school. period. simple.
if you are allowed to own a handgun carry it here in Vermont, anyway you want, as long as you are an American and allowed to have it in your home state, welcome. period. simple.
Because we follow the Bill of Rights here I can't carry a handgun concealed in ANY adjoining state, because we don't have a permit to be reciprocated!
I have to go get their CCW, I have a Utah and Florida CCW which is honored in the majority of states, 40 states recognize or reciprocate each others permits already, but not any in the east, so this would have let us carry our guns without BS through their states without having to get a CCW for each damned state.
ALSO, Federal Transportation regulations state that I can cross NY state with a locked and inaccessible handgun if I am going from a point where I am legal to anohter point where I am legal, HOWEVER the Attorney General in NY CONFISCATES HANDGUNS if they are being checked as luggage at Albany International Airport, he has never prosecuted a case yet as he knows he can't win, so the case is dropped, BUT the gun does not get returned, it gets destroyed, which is the REAL agenda to begin with, annoy gun owners so they go away and curl up somewhere.
Boston's Logan airport does the same thing, on a flight from Rutland Vermont we changed planes in Logan in Boston, to a connecting flight to Pittsburg, PA, we arrived to find our handguns in their checked and approved by TSA locked cases back in Boston!
They had moved the guns from one plane to another ofcourse with the other luggage and the Boston Attorney general does the same crap that Albany NY does, steals your guns.
this is the same as you ordering a sneakbox from NJ and its shipping to you but then being taken off the truck when the truck enters Ohio and confiscated because the attorney general of Ohio doesn't like duckboats.
This bill passing would have negated ALL that BS in Boston, and Albany, and stopped all the petty tyrants who are in power in cities and towns who only feel in power when they strip the rights and freedoms from the people,,, this is your town if they keep going the way they are the last 40 years...getting worse and worse. AND it would have made common sense that if you are legal to have the gun on that side of the tree then you are legal to have it on this side of the tree too!
No one hates a strong central government more than I, but the federal law is that you have the RIGHT to keep and bear arms without infringement! and the states are over riding the federal law with infringements like permits. Go ahead and jump through hoops and get the Permit and then have each state require another hoop jump? should you ahve to buy a fishing license or hunting license for each body of water?
Accepting the permit process to be gin with is a mistake. accept that and you are saying Sure, not only SHOULD the government decide what I can and can't do, but they KNOW BEST what is right for me.
Yesterday your rights were limited, INFRINGED, on firearms, today you are told you can't say certain things if they offend someone, maybe the President, tomorrow you will be told what God you can or can not pray to in your own living room.
It's not about smoking, its not about seatbelts, its not about permits and firearms , It Is About FREEDOM and your Right to that freedom.
Your right.Freedom is the point.The States are the ones that insisted on the bill of rights,the first ten of which are the Constitution.Vermont is correct in not requiring any permit to carry.The sale of guns still requires a Fed background check.Trouble with politicians is they make laws that do nothing to stop the criminal,but removes another fredom from all law abiding citizens.I live close to a State,which didn't have a reciprical agreement,so I had a nonresident from NH,that covered that state.Stand up for Gun rights.
Rocky
New member
I live in MN and just started buying handguns the last few years. Mostly, I just wanted to have a handgun with me when I was out in the woods.
I recently read the laws about carrying a handgun when bow hunting. If I understand this correctly, you can only carry a handgun while bow hunting if you have a CCP! Even if it's not concealed!
I honestly don't understand the logic behind this.
And I whole heartedly agree, why do I need a permit to carry if I was already checked out and allowed to purchase a handgun!
Maybe I should move to Vermont! ;-)
I recently read the laws about carrying a handgun when bow hunting. If I understand this correctly, you can only carry a handgun while bow hunting if you have a CCP! Even if it's not concealed!
I honestly don't understand the logic behind this.
And I whole heartedly agree, why do I need a permit to carry if I was already checked out and allowed to purchase a handgun!
Maybe I should move to Vermont! ;-)
harry whitley
Well-known member
I carried for years illegally before NC passed a CCW. Before that we had to get a permit from the Sheriff of your county of residence to buy a handgun. Didn't necessarilly give you permission to carry it, just to own it. Don't know of too many straight up citizens getting busted for concealed weapons in those days. Lotsa bums got caught with switchblades,brass knucks, and Saturday night specials in the hood back in the day. Those same bums today have glocks uzi's and AK's and there seems to be a problem catching them while thusly armed. Hey we even had a drive by in Greenville NC last month. The crum was using a semi auto 9mm of some description and killed to innocent bystanders. He's been caught, some local preacher talked him into turning himself in. Five will get you ten he gets away with a short sentence cause the preacher is going to bat for him. In my grandad's day he would already have done an oak limb dance. Love to see the bastard hung on the court house square.
Best to all,
harry
Best to all,
harry