Dog Question

Thought I'd ask the experts..... Is it ever too cold to take the dog hunting?

Mike in CT
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Tomorrow morning may very well be too cold. It all depends on the dog and the conditions. Dogs vary quite a bit in terms of what bothers them, but you need to watch the dog to see if they are OK. If they start to show signs of being physically bothered by the cold it is too cold, you need to pull the plug. As a threshold I'd say about 10-15 for my dogs when I consider it, but there are a LOT of variables. If I'm hunting somewhere the dog can be very dry when not working in teh water and move around like on firm dry ground like grass or sand, I would hunt in the very cold. Hunting in marshes or boats gives the dog less opportunity to get truely dried off and that is colder for them. If the day is still and sunny and I was hunting somewhere the dog could get really dried off, I push it below 10. Mud or marshes or in a boat, I'm happy to leave the dog home when it gets really cold.
 
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Based on some of the locations on this site,I would say yes.Here in southern NJ,we don't get many days below 20,most of the winter is above freezing durring the day so not as much of a problemKnowing my labs,they wouldn't know when to quit and that could be a problem under the wrong conditions.I'm interested in response from the Real Cold areas.
 
I can only speak for labs and springers--they won't know when to quit so you need to. It depends on the dog and the conditions as Todd noted, but better safe than sorry.

In addition to the factors Todd mentioned, you should consider the kinds of retrieves the dog may make. Long retrieves in surf or current, breaking ice, dealing with heavy mud or aquatic vegetation, and wind will all add cold stress. A warm/dry spot to rest between retrieves (heater in the boat or blind?) may stretch things a little bit on cold days.
 
Good advice so far. I have hunted my dogs in single digits bit have a foam pad for them to sit on and a heater in the boat once it gets in the teens. That and a vest works for my guys. John
 
I am going to copy/paste this from the retriever training forum...I agree that every dog is different, but they do have limits and they don't know or have the ability to communicate that to us. This is only one experience, and there is no "rule" that everyone must follow, but everyone should be aware of the consequences of pushing too far. (edit: this isn't MY story, but a story that was shared by another hunter on the retriever training forum for everyone to learn from)

Scott

It is my understanding that traumatic events are often dealt with by talking about them to friends and strangers alike. No opinions, agenda, or B.S. here...just an account of what has been one of the toughest days of my life thus far.

The pain and grief I'm burdening my conscience with is more that anyone could possibly throw at me, so please save the "reply" button for support of my dog and not reiteration of what I now understand was terribly poor judgement on my (and only my) behalf. This morning I laid on the edge of a field in Jackson county Arkansas asking God and whoever else was listening why it had to end this way. On the week that Ace will age out of the Derby, I watched the life quickly slip from his eyes as I stripped my waders and clothes off trying to warm him while my hunting partner was running for the Argo.

We've been after the ducks pretty hard so far this season, and this morning was no different than normal. Picking up birds until about 8:30 when the "faucet" seems to shut off. Except, the faucet opened up on a buckbrush hole around 9:00 and two of us headed over to slip in and get in on the action. Even being his first season to hunt, 30 something days into it, he's really added "duck dawg" to his short, but respectable resume', dotted with some derby points and Q placements. While most of our spots have platforms or at least logs to get the dogs out of the water, this "makeshift" hunt had no decent place for a dog to stand. Seeing the sheer number of birds and knowing that we only needed a few, I figured 30 minutes tops...surely he can stand in knee deep water for that long. About 45 minutes into it he had just made a retrieve and I noticed a strange grunt/moan on the return that I've never heard before. As he came to heel, and another group was making a pass, he continued to make the sound. As he's not a "whiner" when birds are working, I gave a "quiet-nick". Continues to make the sound. Now I'm scratching my head. Knowing that he'll air even in swimming water, I rule that out. I chalk it up to "he's cold" and say "let's call it, my dog's getting chilly". As we're easing out, he becomes disoriented and begins to just tread water. I walk over and ease on his collar to pull him along. When his legs floated up to the sides, I knew we were in deep kim shi. Hypothermia was rapidly draining his time with us, as his core body temp continued to plummet. When I let go of his collar to pick him up, he sunk (head and all). Now I've heard of people doing amazing things in times of extreme duress (single person flips over car that is trapping someone, etc.), but I have never made it through 250 yards of beaver-run, smart-weed filled stump hole filled buck brush in under 20 minutes with my shotgun and blind bag. This morning I did that plus a 67 pound lab in 5. By the time I got to dry ground he was limp and unable to support his own head. I stripped my jacket, outershirt, and fleece to wrap and then curled up next to him while my partner (75 yards behind me without carrying a dog) was making to to shore to get the Argo. He had his first seizure on the edge of the field, gasping for breath, foaming at the mouth, and contracting every muscle in his body. As his eyes rolled back I pleaded with him "I'm so sorry buddy, I never meant for it to end this way"..."I never would have done this to you on purpose"....this was 10 minutes from the time he picked up the last bird. And I prayed for the first time in a long time. The selfish grief that burned from the fact that I was losing my first "real" dog and best friend was sickly overshadowed by the anguish that I felt from seeing the pain in Ace's eyes. That image raises the hair on my neck as I type this and will likely haunt me for many years to come. Argo pulls up and I hop in, with him in my lap, wrapped in my jacket, and I take the longest 1/2 mile ride to the truck that I'll ever take. Get to the truck, start engine, petal to the floor trying to get warmed up so that the heat kicks in. Lay Ace in the passenger floorboard and use everything dry that I had (handlers jackets, frogg toggs, gloves, etc) to get the water off. Then pile on my bibs, coat, and fleece to keep him warm. Second seizure hits as my buddy climbs into the driver's seat for the 45 minute ride to Jonesboro, where we have no clue how to find a vet on Sunday morning. Was going to give him some Coke to provide a shot of glucose, only to find out that his jaws were locked shut, front teeth piercing through his bottom lip from the seizures. Totally immobile and unresponsive, I pinch, pull, and pat to keep him from shutting those eyes. Notice that his gums are solid white. A few times he takes "his dying breath" and I jackleg attempt canine CPR. 10 minutes from Jonesboro and we get a call from the vet who responded to a page from his answering service. He's 15 minutes away, so I wait out another of the 5 longest minutes of my life in the parking lot. He pulls up, unlocks the doors, and I carry Ace in with the gut feeling that this would be his last vet visit. I prayed again for the second time in a long time. What happened in the next 4 hours is nothing short of a sho' nuff' miracle. I usually don't buy that cheesy crap, but I "seen it with my own eyes". With a core body temp of 84 degrees at the vet (so we'll call it close to 80 before the 100 mph heater wide open truck ride), a blur of heated tables, blankets, heating pads, warm saline solution through an IV began. 2 hours into it, we got to 90 degrees. He began to shiver (which was a good sign), and opened his eyes. At 2.5 hours, he picked up his head and took a drunken look around. At 3 hours, we were at 94 and and eased outside to relieve the bladder (another good sign that the kidneys were functioning). At 3.5 hours he ate a high-protein tube of some honey-substance. At 4 hours he was at 97 and I was hauling to Memphis with him asleep in the back seat, destined for the emergency clinic. Out of the back seat in Memphis he's got pep in his step to air and meet the awaiting staff with vet chart faxes in hand. He leveled out a 101.5 for tonight and is resting while fluids are administered. And while this seems to be the happy ending, I'm fully aware that he's not out of the woods yet. A condition known as D.I.C. (can't give you the true acronym, but the slang is Death Is Coming) were clotting ability is reduced is a definite possibility, along with a string of other ailments, including kidney, heart, lung failure, and the potential for his "internal temp regulators" to spike and throw him into HYPERthermia in the near future are all very real threats. But that's tomorrow. For tonight, my dog is alive. And in better condition than he was on the edge of that field this morning.

What did I learn?
-You cannot leave a dog in the water, even for a short amount of time. They need a place to get out and shake the excess water.
-I've always been a critic of dog vests...not no mo'. After the ass-chewing I got from the vet, I got a good list of reasons to use a vest.
-You've got to listen to your dog. Generally, they'll show/tell you that something's wrong.
-There could easily be more than coincidence relating the request for divine intervention and the honest-to-goodness miracle that I witnessed today.

The deepest and most sincere Thank You from the bottom of my heart (and Ace's) goes out to everyone that has played a role in today and the upcoming days (you know who you are).
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here is the link to the original post
 
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I listen to similar stories each Fall Hunting season from my wife during dinner conversations. The owners names are never communicated, but the events and the circumstances have a single trait in common;hyper testosteronism at its peak concentration.

You spend two years and whatever your purchase and transport costs are getting a good hunting dog "online". Add-in the value of a decade long or more emotional bond forged doing what you both love. Is it really worth a day or two of hunting the dog when it is too hot or too cold to opt out and not run the risk of physical or physiologic damage to the animal? Even if the dog survives the event, they never tolerate similar temperature conditions again.

I don't know about you, but I have a horrible time watching one of my dogs die when they reach their natural end. I don't think I could handle being the cause of that event. I'll risk the loss of a cripple before I risk the loss of my dog.
 
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I wasn't going to post this, but feel I owe it to my dog and your's as penance. The story below is mine that was relayed to some friends. This happened on Christmas Eve this year. In hindsight, I'm not really sure that absolute temp is primary factor. Feeding habits, wind exposure (mainly this, think of how/why/when you get cold), and retrieving load all play a factor. I will tell you from private conversations with a few breeders/trainers/and just regular old guys that have lost them, it appears to be MUCH more common than what you actually here about. I wish someone had told me or posted something, or I had taken time to research. Hit me with hard questions if you need to, I think I can handle it. I dug a cold wet deep hole for 4 hours in the rain on Saturday in low temps, clearly to bury the dog, but partially to do some penance for what I did to her. Story below cut and pasted from somewhere else so may read as being partially out of context. IMPORTANT PLEASE READ THE BOLD GLUCOSE PART, the specialist said it would have saved her.
I felt the need to post this up, in hopes that maybe someone would take the time to read, and maybe it would help someone. If you feel the need to post a comment about how ignorant I am, or the fact that I murdered my dog, that is fine as well, I'm coming to grips with both of those. Some of you might know that I ran a well conditioned almost 4 year old boykin spaniel. She was in what I would consider top shape, but definitely not carrying any extra fat. In a typical week, it was not uncommon for her to log 10 road miles at well under a 10 min pace, plus two to three hunts either upland or retrieving. A number of factors in the following story, may not seem relevant, however, in hindsight for me several things contributed to the perfect storm that led to the loss of my dog, Sarcelle. On Christmas eve, Alex and I made a decision to hunt a large lease I have that is a long boat ride from the house. It was cold, but not frigid, far from the coldest conditions on an absolute temperature basis that the dog had ever hunted, but the 20-25 mph N wind definitely put quite the sting in the air. There was ice in the pirogue, so I'd put the temps somewhere around 32 early but probably 35-40 during the hunt. We generally hunt a different lease which is closer to the ramp, and generally I feed the dog a biscuit or something a couple hours before the hunt on the way down the road. Well, going to this ramp on Christmas eve, nothing was open, and the dog did not get a breakfast. I had dog food in the car, but didn't think to give her any. The 30 minute of so boat ride was uneventful but cold, and the shooting started out relatively slow. We picked at birds till 8, when we had planned to leave, probably having only 4 or 5 in the bag. Around 8 the birds began moving, both of us discussed how miserable the boat ride would be in the wind, and we moved the deadline to 9 am. The dog logged a couple more retrieves, and around 845 we dropped a couple birds. One was a wounded grey for a pretty long retrieve across a mud flat. The other was a dead bird in the decoys. She was sent on the grey making a good retrieve. Second was a dead shoveler in the decoys. She could see the bird, but would not enter the water. In hindsight this was probably the first sign. She generally had a fairly vigorous entry when able to mark. She eventually made entry and passed the bird 6-8 ft downwind and continued on. We stopped her called her back, she missed the bird again and returned to us. I got her downwind of the bird and sent her, she went but not vigorously, fetched the bird, but began to not listen. We began to pick up and placed the dog in the boat. Shortly thereafter she began to shake vigorously, her vest was removed and she was placed in my dry jacket. Not long after she lost control of her rear legs and shaking became more violent along with painful audible whining. As stated before we had a long cold boat ride. I placed the dog inside of my jacket inside of my waders with me. At some point during that ride, she died for all intents and purposes, giving the death throws that we as hunters are fairly familiar with. We returned to the ramp, and I rushed her to the vet, all the while assuming she had passed. At the vet, she did have a heartbeat and was breathing, but was severely hypothermic. They warmed her, but she remained unresponsive and I transferred her to a 24 hr er vet for Christmas. At that vet she was treated by a trauma specialist, who's recommendation was to treat and do blood work. After 24 hrs she worsened and is now gone. The trauma specialist was at least able to tell me why this happened. The hypothermia was a condition caused by what is called "hunting dog hypoglycemia". I am not sure of its prevalence in labs, but the more I read online, the more common it seems in the thinner sporting breeds, especially in conjunction with wet cold conditions. I am now surprised I had not previously heard of this. I am attaching a relatively lengthy article on the subject http://wenaha.blogspot.com/2010/04/hunt ... cemia.html . If you don't feel like reading the whole thing, the key points I would like to convey are in bold below:

Hunting Dog Hypoglcemia is often linked to strenuous conditions often associated with cold and wet. Signs:
Stage 1: Whenever hypoglycemia develops while a dog is being hunted, the first physical or behavioral evidence of it will be a gradual onset of fatigue. However, it should be emphasized that, in the vast majority of instances in which fatigue becomes evident during hunting, hypoglycemia will NOT be the cause. In most cases, the dog is simply becoming physically exhausted and/or overheated, or is experiencing intestinal or stomach cramping. Nevertheless, any dog that appears to become fatigued while hunting should be carefully observed for the possible appearance of stage 2 symptoms.

Stage 2: In addition to fatigue, the dog begins to evidence incoordination and/or staggering. At this point, it is urgent that all physical activity immediately cease, and that either the dog be fed (its regular dog food) or a concentrated glucose source, such as:

(1) 50% glucose solution in water or,

(2) corn syrup, be administered by mouth.

Stage 3: In addition to stage 1 and 2 signs, muscular tremors and spasms may occur, which may result in abnormal postures.
Stage 4: In addition to stage 1, 2 and 3 signs, the dog may begin having seizures/convulsions.

Stage 5: The dog is completely unconscious and unresponsive, a condition which is referred to as coma.

Stage 6: This stage is death, which may occur in untreated animals as a result of exposure (and hypothermia) or, in either treated or untreated animals, as a result of severe damage to the brain and/or other vital organs from hypoglycemia and/or anoxia.
 
Wow, Kris, sorry this happened to you and your dog buddy. We must always be vigilant but most of us don't know what to look for - thanks for posting your story.
 
Yes,this year 8 below was too cold for me so it was too cold for the dogs. I try to keep them dry as long as possible. A good vest and a pad to sit on. I also feed them after each hunt in addition to their normal feedings When it's below 10 I'll call it early. Just got back tonight from hunting the Hudson for 3 days lots of ice on the edges about 20 today, NW wind, dog was fine.
 
I personally believe.. there is a big difference between a seasoned dog .. and a house dog.....

I have hunting the spring holes on the Mississippi many times at temps of -5 with my Chessies ... with no ill effects to the dog or me.... and with green heads in the bag....
 
Thanks for all the good info, we never want to lose our best hunting buddies and now we know what to watch for in the cold. I guess I have always been extra cautious and will continue to be. Thanks from me and Booker T.
 
That is an excellent question, Mike. The responses were what I found so interesting. I don't hunt my dogs when there is ice flowing in the Rio Grande. Secondly, they all have a dry place to be and I have always tried hard to provide something warm for them to sit or stand on like a pad or extra burlap. Anything that keeps them off the ground. Another thing I have done is always try and "read" the signs that they give us. When conditions get insane I much prefer to stay at home and go hunting on another day.
A good friend of mine once told me that when the temps get so cold he always brings large dog bones covered in lard. I will always bring treats when weather is an issue. Our dogs are the ones that need it, not us.
Al
Al
 
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