drill guide ideas....

tod osier

tod osier

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I'm doing some work on the camper and I have some suspension holes that are wallowed out that I need filled and redrilled precisely. Hole final size will be 9/16" and thickness of the piece is 1/4", the holes are in a spring hanger, so I have about a 4x4 plate to attach to.

I've looked at the drill guides that make your portable drill into a drill press and all brands get horrible reviews for runout and I doubt that the base would mount where I need it to (base is too big to mount on the piece). I can make a wood block with a set of drill bushings that step up in size. Does anyone have another suggestion?

Given 1/4" thick plate with a final hole size of 9/16, what drill sizes would I want to step through for ultimate precision and ease? I'm assuming that stepping up would be the best way, it would be the easiest to drill for sure, but is it better for precision?
 
great question Dave since the brackets are cheap. First is the bracket placement. I spent the better part of a couple days doing a complete axle alignment on the camper and I'd like to not have to repeat that, if I cut the brackets off I'd have to re-do the alignment, but I think I can redrill close enough if I make a template to lay it out after the holes are welded shut. Second, I have cross members (frame/suspension stiffeners) mounted to the brackets (morrhyde x-factor crossmembers) that I'd need to remove and reinstall (not as big a deal as the alignment, but something).

I have other welding I need done (battery tray welded and another support added). I don't weld, so I'm having it done all at once.

T
 
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Tod,

This may or may not work, you would have to run it by your welder guy. Back at the tool shop the welders would sometimes use a copper bock to back up an area being welded. The copper backer, would keep the hot weld from flowing thru to an inside surface where it would be difficult to remove. The welding wire will not stick to the copper. I hope you can visualize that.

I'm thinking a copper backer with a copper spud protruding from the face of it. The spud would be longer than the depth of the repair and on size or 1/32 under size (preferred) of the desired hole. Line up the spud in the existing wallowed hole, clamp in place and weld the hole shut all around the copper spud. Repeat for the remaining locations. Like I say, check with your welder guy.

Follow up by running a reamer thru for final sizing. A reamer will give you a much more accurately sized and rounder hole than a drill bit.

The spud in my drawing is way longer than needed, just shown this way for illustration.
View attachment plug.jpg
 
Thanks Dave, I've seen that technique mentioned with copper also a carbon/graphite rod too. I talked to the welder the other day on the phone and I didn't float that option since he seemed set on filling the hole as the best way. I need to have a face-to-face conversation about it, since I hate describing things over the phone.
 
Tod

Would it be possible to drill a hole into a flat piece of steel and then place it in the right position over the wallowed hole and weld the plate on top or behind the damaged one?

Eric
 
Eric Patterson said:
Tod

Would it be possible to drill a hole into a flat piece of steel and then place it in the right position over the wallowed hole and weld the plate on top or behind the damaged one?

Eric
Click to expand...

I love it, you guys are recreating my journey of good ideas - that whole great minds thing... :).

The answer is no on this one because overall thickness is an issue. I planned to add a weld washer as a fix, but that affects thickness just like the plate. The issue is that I'm at max thickness for the available bolts. The suspension bolts are greasable wet bolts and I've checked and they don't make one larger than what I'm using (the aforementioned cross members max out the bolt length).
 
Here's another idea. Buy a new hanger and drill a 1/4" hole dead center where it sits on the trailer frame. Drill a hole in the same location in the bad hanger currently on the trailer. Grind the old hanger off and use a 1/4" drift pin to locate the new hanger's position and then weld it on.

Eric
 
Also, to get those holes I described as close to the same position as possible on your old and new hanger use a center punch to dimple a measured and marked hole, then start with a 1/8" bit to get a good accurate start of the hole. Then go to 1/4". Smaller bits are way less prone to skating away from the intended location.
 
Tod,

Have you considered a step drill? The one in the link is just typical, with the exception of being a two flute design. Usually these are designed for thinner material. I have used them successfully drilling thru trailer frames. I know I've seen some with a 1/4 inch step depth before. Even with a shallower step depth, one can always drill just to where the next oversize starts to cut a chamfer on the material, then finish with a standard drill or reamer of the proper size.

This assumes you can accurately locate where you want the hole centerline. The step drill should keep you on location.

Course you could always just trade the worn out spring hanger in on a new one that is already properly located on the new trailer. Just another option. [whistle]
 
tod osier said:
I'm doing some work on the camper and I have some suspension holes that are wallowed out that I need filled and redrilled precisely. Hole final size will be 9/16" and thickness of the piece is 1/4", the holes are in a spring hanger, so I have about a 4x4 plate to attach to.

I've looked at the drill guides that make your portable drill into a drill press and all brands get horrible reviews for runout and I doubt that the base would mount where I need it to (base is too big to mount on the piece). I can make a wood block with a set of drill bushings that step up in size. Does anyone have another suggestion?

Given 1/4" thick plate with a final hole size of 9/16, what drill sizes would I want to step through for ultimate precision and ease? I'm assuming that stepping up would be the best way, it would be the easiest to drill for sure, but is it better for precision?
Click to expand...

Tod,

Something like this?
Hardwood baseplate,,, Three 1/4 steel dowels to register against the hanger bracket,,, One "master" bushing pressed and glued in place,,, Four removable bushings to step up in size; (a) 5/32 drill (b) 5/16 drill (c) 7/16 drill (d) 9/16 drill These are sizes I picked, from those available from McMaster, based on a common OD to fit the master bushing.



View attachment drill guide.jpg
 
Huntindave McCann said:
tod osier said:
I'm doing some work on the camper and I have some suspension holes that are wallowed out that I need filled and redrilled precisely. Hole final size will be 9/16" and thickness of the piece is 1/4", the holes are in a spring hanger, so I have about a 4x4 plate to attach to.

I've looked at the drill guides that make your portable drill into a drill press and all brands get horrible reviews for runout and I doubt that the base would mount where I need it to (base is too big to mount on the piece). I can make a wood block with a set of drill bushings that step up in size. Does anyone have another suggestion?

Given 1/4" thick plate with a final hole size of 9/16, what drill sizes would I want to step through for ultimate precision and ease? I'm assuming that stepping up would be the best way, it would be the easiest to drill for sure, but is it better for precision?
Click to expand...

Tod,

Something like this?
Hardwood baseplate,,, Three 1/4 steel dowels to register against the hanger bracket,,, One "master" bushing pressed and glued in place,,, Four removable bushings to step up in size; (a) 5/32 drill (b) 5/16 drill (c) 7/16 drill (d) 9/16 drill These are sizes I picked, from those available from McMaster, based on a common OD to fit the master bushing.
Click to expand...

Wow Dave, yes that is right in line with what I was thinking. I was thinking of using the 9/16 as what you call the master and with two smaller Bushings that fit into the 9/16 (1/8 ID with 5/16 OD in 5/16 ID with 9/16 OD, so you can drill 1/8 then 5/16 then 9/16), but I like what you have. I was thinking of clamping the block on, but your method of indexing looks good. I was thinking of taking a paper trace (Creasing not really tracing to define the edges) of the bracket and hole before welding and clamping the block on using the tracing to position the 9/16 exactly on the bracket.

I was using McMaster Carr for my parts too, amazingly if I order in the afternoon I can get orders next day from them.

I know some hybrid will work, your guidance on drill sizes is appreciated too. I know the repair will be harder, but that is desired given the wallowing of the soft steel I?ve seen already. I was hoping there was a tool or something I didn?t know about, but this level certainly is in my grasp of work.

Got to get to bed, got a date with the turkey tomorrow.
 
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Tod,

These are the part numbers I was looking at. Please double check my work before you place an order, I'd hate for you to find I made an error after the fact.

Master bushing= .750 ID X 1.000OD #8492A304
Descending
.562 ID X .750 OD #8493A259
.437 ID X .750 OD #8493A266
.312 ID X .750 OD #8493A261
.156 ID X .312 OD #8493A085 This bushing will need to be combined with the one above, to fit into the master bushing.

I'd still firmly clamp the hardwood block in place, even with the pins as a locator for the block. It is probably more important that the .562 holes are inline with each other on the inner plate and the outer plate of the hanger brackets. And in line from one side of the trailer frame to the other. Of less importance would be a slight error in locating the register pins causing the actual location of the hanger bolt to shift slightly. A huge shift in location would not be good.
 
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Huntindave McCann said:
Tod,

These are the part numbers I was looking at. Please double check my work before you place an order, I'd hate for you to find I made an error after the fact.

Master bushing= .750 ID X 1.000OD #8492A304
Descending
.562 ID X .750 OD #8493A259
.437 ID X .750 OD #8493A266
.312 ID X .750 OD #8493A261
.156 ID X .312 OD #8493A085 This bushing will need to be combined with the one above, to fit into the master bushing.

I'd still firmly clamp the hardwood block in place, even with the pins as a locator for the block. It is probably more important that the .562 holes are inline with each other on the inner plate and the outer plate of the hanger brackets. And in line from one side of the trailer frame to the other. Of less importance would be a slight error in locating the register pins causing the actual location of the hanger bolt to shift slightly. A huge shift in location would not be good.
Click to expand...

Yes, Dave, Thanks, that All makes sense.

I?ll check your work before an order. I see how the pilot is nested to get the size to work, I like that.
 
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Eric Patterson said:
Also, to get those holes I described as close to the same position as possible on your old and new hanger use a center punch to dimple a measured and marked hole, then start with a 1/8" bit to get a good accurate start of the hole. Then go to 1/4". Smaller bits are way less prone to skating away from the intended location.
Click to expand...

I can for sure do that, but I do nott want to go to the trouble to remove and reinstall the braces that are attached to the hangers and then get the hangers to all work out, there are 3 on each side. To do it right, I would just grind all 3 off each side and replace, but I am past that point.

I have spent so much time on this camper suspension over the years, I just can not stand it and want to take the easy route for once (maybe I should not drag the thing on such rough roads for so many miles).
 
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Good morning, Dave & Tod & Eric~


I am thoroughly enjoying this thread. Although my Dad worked pime in a machine shop when I was very young, my formal education in metal working ended after 8th grade shop class. So, it's nice and very enlightening to hear someone with real expertise.


BTW: I drilled 6 holes in and bent a piece of 1/4 x 1 steel yesterday for a mailbox mount....pretty much reached my limits.



Thanks very much!


SJS

 
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