Eagle Dies after ingesting lead shot

I'm glad you posted this, Jeff. Sometimes it takes an event like this to wake up the right people in hopes that it may never happen again.
Al
 
sad - but this will add fuel to the efforts to ban all lead for all hunting,
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I know this puts a burden on some, like you Rick, but I'm all for it and I think it is WAY overdue to move away from lead. There is just no reason to shoot a toxic metal when alternatives exist that work just about as well. The biggie was banning lead for ducks and geese where the big birds and long shots give lead a real edge, but for what remains (other than maybe turkies) steel works great. I'm all for cleaning up our act when we can switching to steel for upland birds is an easy move for most.
 
sorry - not the way i meant it, - as an upland huntter with vintage doubles- i am not looking to see all lead use banned where it does not get concentrated
 
sorry - not the way i meant it, - as an upland huntter with vintage doubles- i am not looking to see all lead use banned where it does not get concentrated
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No, I knew exactly where you stood and that you like fine doubles that need to eat lead. I am sympathetic.

As for concentrating lead, lead is concentrated in cripples - hence the dead eagle from eating a likely crip.
 
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It seems to me one could phase out lead in ammunition the way we phased it out in gasoline--with a period during which we allowed older shotguns only to shoot lead, but required non-toxic for anything that can safely shoot it. I'm willing to bet the increased demand a ban would create would bring down the price of lead alternatives that are safe in older guns and stimulate some R+D into new alternatives.

I'm not sure a ban is the way to go, though. I think this is largely a matter of educating ourselves about the real impacts of lead and making informed choices. I've gone over to all steel for upland, and am considering it for clays as well. Surely we can agree that lead gets concentrated in shooting ranges. I suspect this is a large part of the impetus for the military to phase out lead altogether. I bet Uncle Sam spends a lot of dough cleaning up old ranges.
 
I said I wouldn't do this ever again a long time ago when an elk in a trap photo showed up. But...

Just to play devils advocate. So an eagle died because of human activity, sorry but big deal. Would it have been better had it gotten hit on the road feeding on road kill? Maybe electrocuted on a powerline would be better? How about getting karate chopped by those ugly wind turbine behemoths spreading across the prairie so the east coast can feel good that their power doesn't all come from coal? I think far more die so that we can have other conveniences but that doesn't make for good headlines. "Eagle dies because kids all over must play Call Of Duty."
I know people will say that is just silly to suggest that going away from lead is the same as using less power but why? We don't really need to be on this forum right now. We could use much less power and many things would be better off...but we won't...and I am not advocating that either. Just pointing out that the bigger issues will not be, maybe can not be, dealt with.

I also believe dammed up rivers that are now all the rage to hate actually made for better more spread out wintering habitat for Bald Eagles. They probably helped them come back some. It can work both ways.

This may sound cold but I have never been worried about an individual animal. How is the population doing? Anyone who says Bald Eagles are doing poorly right now must not go outside. I see far far more then I ever did when I was young...and I was a bird crazy kid so I looked. I see them in new places every year. When the waterfowl migrate through it can be silly how many that can be seen here.

I'm not saying lead shouldn't be and will not be banned some day. I mostly shoot steel now, for convenience is nothing else. I just don't think one eagle dieing is a big deal or a telling sign. It could have died a 100 different ways that could be tied to a convenience we can't see ourselves doing without.

I know someone will come up with how many are dieing each year from lead but just remember we are not talking Condors here, the population of Bald Eagles is clearly growing.

Tim
 
Tim, I don't know if you remember or not, but last season I came on a crippled eagle while duck hunting. A game warden came down to help me capture it, and I delivered it to the raptor rescue folks who are mentioned in the story I linked to.

My eagle had a broken wing--it had apparently flown into a powerline--and had to be put down. But the warden and the folks at Avian Haven both told me that when they get disabled eagles, the cause is ingested lead more often than not. Now, if there were no alternatives to lead, I might take the attitude that some level of impact is unavoidable unless we wanted to ban hunting. But steel works just find for all the birds I hunt, so I figure why not make the switch?

We've already phased out most lead fishing weights here because of similar issues with loon mortalities.
 
I said I wouldn't do this ever again a long time ago when an elk in a trap photo showed up. But...

Just to play devils advocate. So an eagle died because of human activity, sorry but big deal. Would it have been better had it gotten hit on the road feeding on road kill? Maybe electrocuted on a powerline would be better? How about getting karate chopped by those ugly wind turbine behemoths spreading across the prairie so the east coast can feel good that their power doesn't all come from coal? I think far more die so that we can have other conveniences but that doesn't make for good headlines. "Eagle dies because kids all over must play Call Of Duty."
I know people will say that is just silly to suggest that going away from lead is the same as using less power but why? We don't really need to be on this forum right now. We could use much less power and many things would be better off...but we won't...and I am not advocating that either. Just pointing out that the bigger issues will not be, maybe can not be, dealt with.

I also believe dammed up rivers that are now all the rage to hate actually made for better more spread out wintering habitat for Bald Eagles. They probably helped them come back some. It can work both ways.

This may sound cold but I have never been worried about an individual animal. How is the population doing? Anyone who says Bald Eagles are doing poorly right now must not go outside. I see far far more then I ever did when I was young...and I was a bird crazy kid so I looked. I see them in new places every year. When the waterfowl migrate through it can be silly how many that can be seen here.

I'm not saying lead shouldn't be and will not be banned some day. I mostly shoot steel now, for convenience is nothing else. I just don't think one eagle dieing is a big deal or a telling sign. It could have died a 100 different ways that could be tied to a convenience we can't see ourselves doing without.

I know someone will come up with how many are dieing each year from lead but just remember we are not talking Condors here, the population of Bald Eagles is clearly growing.

Tim
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Well grounded, thoughtful reply. A couple responses...

One being dying from lead poisoning is a pretty shitty way to die and it is a direct result of hunting - so it is out fault and makes us look bad as hunters. Sure, remove that and there are still a hundred things that make us look bad to non-hunters, but still.

You are right about the individual not being important (except in very small populations as you point out), but there is a difference between there being plenty of eagles and enough. I have no data on what the proper number is, but plenty may be not enough.

I think your point about just an eagle is a good one, but the problem is that it is an eagle, can't get a more of a universally recognized and loaded symbol of our nation or freedom or wilderness (even if it is a scavenger). Poisoning eagles because of sport and choice in shot type is bad PR even if it doesn't matter to the eagle population.

As far as reducing waste, yep. I try to be a good steward and for me that includes reducing the amount of lead I spread around.
 
Now, if there were no alternatives to lead, I might take the attitude that some level of impact is unavoidable unless we wanted to ban hunting. But steel works just find for all the birds I hunt, so I figure why not make the switch?

We've already phased out most lead fishing weights here because of similar issues with loon mortalities.
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There are many who say that banning lead is a step towards limiting shooting and hunting with an plan to stop hunting. In my eye, getting away from lead is a positive and can only help the image of hunting.


 
Oh I am sure in the next 10 years or so lead will be banned in shot and I am fine with it. I actually think steel works better for some things, steel 6s hammer doves and I am finding that steel 3s really kill pheasants when hunting over a dog...often too well. Price is a non issue now days since when looking for some lead for an older gun it was cheaper to shoot good steel then good lead.

I am a little concerned about the total elimination of lead. For fishing I have found nothing that is close to it. Tungsten is very expensive and tin just sucks. Some day I'll try pouring some tin but I don't see that going very well. I also don't see a good option for things like handgun bullets, .22s and round balls for muzzleloaders. I know there are some copper and tungsten poly options but those are really for once a year hunters not shooters.

Tim
 
on the first post, Tim.. Well put! Hey do we also give folks in uniform steel bullets? Gee, what a novel idea that would be, huh?
Does that mean if we do it our non friendlies will comply? Perhaps, we should just use paintballs for big game?
Does mayve the iggle ate a cripple mean that is what REALLY caused its expiration?
Ben Franklin was right--The turkey is certainly not a scavenger, like the majestic dead fish and road kill eagle, just a step up from the buzzard, an oft maligned bird.
 
sure hope it flattens and makes BIG holes, well, that is, if our liar in chief allows aour servicemen ammunition!
As an afterthought, considering the expense, don't we find that a mite extravagant, especially when our enemies, home and abroad may not be so #@$@#$ environmentally sensitive?
 
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OK so the Wind Mills that are out electricity salvation (HA) can kill Eagles and it's not a problem, but lead shot from hunters is a Big Problem. What a crock...
 
There are a lot a man made influences that kill eagles. The above article, and of course the accompanying video of the eagle gasping for its last breath, is meant to appeal to bleeding hearts and it appears to be working.

We deal with Avian Vacuolar Myelinopathy, aka AVM down here in the South. This is killing eagles that ingest the toxin from the dead or dying host. Not a man made toxin and hardly a blip on the radar regarding eagle deaths. Interesting read, Susan Wilde is the leading researcher on AVM at UGA.
http://www.forestry.uga.edu/swilde/
 
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