English Cocker question

Dwight Harley

Well-known member
We may get a new pup in the spring. I like spaniels and I want a versatile dog for waterfowl and upland birds. This pup will live in the house so we want a 30-45# dog. It will be a lucky dog because when it is not hunting my wife and daughter will spoil it. I hear that the English Cockers are good with families and pretty good swimmers. Anyone have any experience with these dogs? I used to work at a vet and I never liked the American Cockers because they were snippy little shits that had all the smarts and hunting bred out of them.
 
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Yes, I like those Boykins. But there are several English Cocker breeders within driving distance of us and most of the Boykin breeders are in the East and the South.
 
An American Water Spaniel would fit your needs nicely!

My 1 year old Lily had her first real successful waterfowl hunt on our wet, wet, wet (did I say wet?) opener on Saturday. Camera lens was foggy on my friends camera. Here she is with the first retrieve of the day - one of a pair - a scotch double for me on drake mallards. ;-)

She weighs in at 37lbs.

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Second the AWS suggestion.

Mine is schizo... thinks he's a hunter by day (almost there) and a cat at night (totally there... family picks him up, cuddles him and he loves it)...

All in all, a great family dog.
 
I'm a Labrador man from day one, but, based on your desires I'd have to agree with the American Water Spaniel. A member of my hunting club has had several. They're great family dogs, good upland dogs, and can handle most waterfowl hunting.
 
We just lost our cocker in June. The house isn't the same without him despite our golden pup. He was a bit on the large side 40-45#, great bird dog. He was a bit grumpy but only when something else was on his planet. As long as you came no closer than Jupiter, he was just fine. Great with the family, great nose, loved to retrieve. They do not shed so you have to groom them as their hair just keeps growing. Also, due to them not shedding, getting burrs out of their fur is akin to pulling them out of your own hair. They don't really appreciate it too much. We have been looking into breeders for cockers and there are some specializing in hunting lines. They say they are not at all snippy and the owners I have spoken to agree. I don't have any breeders names but there are a few in the midwest. I hope this helps, good luck. Jim H
 
Another vote for the AWS. Mine is 14 months and a hunting maniac. He is 50 lbs but a female may be within your weight range. Nicks pup Lily (above) is a fine example of the breed. I have been to 4 hunt tests recently, all were spaniel tests. The ECS, ACS, field bred, bench bred, they were all represented. The field bred did better in the hunt test. Some are very small, but most got the job done. BUT I wouldn't trade my AWS for any of them.

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You might want to check out Joe Spoo's blog. http://blog.gundogdoc.com/ He recently got a English Cocker. From what I have read on there it looks like she is a smart hard charging pup.
I think if I ever get another dog it will be something like an ECS. For small cover pheasant hunting I don't think you could do better, not sure how much cold they can take when wet.

Tim
 
has an English Cocker....also named Lilly although my favorite name for her is Short Round....the dog is a genuine, bonafide "POCKET ROCKET" on a hunt and I'm amazed at her stamina. I Quail hunted for two days this past weekend with Louie and fully expected that Lilly would be toast halfway through the first day. Couldn't have been more worng and she was still going strong at the end of the second days hunts. And this wasn't easy hunting for even a bigger dog given the Russian Thistle, the wheat stubble, (which is about exactly the same ht. as ShortRound's belly), the thick sage and the rose bushes....

She wouldn't be the dog that I'd pick for ducks, (with the exception of a wood duck pond or some other small body of water), but if I wasn't a Lab man I'd definately consider an English Cocker if I wanted a small dog that was going to be an agressive Upland hunter and an affectionate house dog....

Be advised though that if you have a cute little pocket pup and your wife affixes a pink collar around its neck and then trains it to come when called with the command..."I'll spank your bottom"...that your friends WILL make fun of you while hunting, (ask Louie, he'll tell ya).

Steve
 
Hey thanks Sutton, for your report on Pork Chop (Lily). I was thinking she would run out of gas, but it was me that ran out first. Lily's parent where British imports as pups and were out of British field trial stock. Lily's mom wieghed 22 lbs and her dad was 20 lbs aaaannd here comes lily at 32 lbs, but that does not seem to slow here down. If anyone is looking for a hunting Cocker please be sure to look for field stock not some short nosed show dog.
 
Steve and Louis,
Your posts would be much better with a couple pictures of this 'pocket rocket' with some quail . hint hint Come on you had to take some.

Tim
 
kept planning to but just never did.....so no pictures of the "Pocket Rocket".....

Somewhere I have a picture of me with her from last year on a Pheasant hunt, (this was when she was just "short" and not "round" as well). I'll see if I can't find that one and post it....

Steve
 
Dwight,
While I will readily admit zero experience with AWS or ECS, and I am now with my second labrador, would recommend consideration of the Boykins. I've had two and both were every bit the "pocket rocket". 30-35 lbs. and smart enough that little real instruction was needed, at least not like the bigger breeds.
5-6 years ago when I won the World Series of Poker, I took a Boykin who would walk around the table and then report in on who had what cards. Actually a real easy tornament. My labrador couldn't tell the clubs from the spades.
 
I did a lot of research into this subject when I knew I was going to lose my Chessie Emma. I took a long hard look at all of the breeds mentioned in the thread before settling on the FBECS. I was looking for a smallish, hard-hunting dog that was great in the uplands but would also be passable on South Dakota waterfowl.

Now I'll preface this with the admission that I'll paint with a pretty broad-brush when speaking about the breeds, and I fully acknowledge in the end its about the individual dog and not the breed. That being said, at the end of the day we make breed decisions and then look for the individual dogs.

Initially I thought the Boykin was the most logical choice as it was first a waterfowl dog. I did a lot of research talking with breeders and professional trainers from all over the country. The more I talked with breed aficionados the more I was actually turned off. I think the folks in the Boykin breed are doing all of the right things, but at the end of the day the are working with a very, very small gene pool and have had some genetic disasters crop up in even their best lines. Having traveled the genetic disaster road with my Chessie I wasn't ready to roll those dice again. On the working front, almost universally they were described as warm-weather retrievers and just-above-average upland hunters. Again, I'm speaking in broad terms here and from the impression given to me by the individuals most familiar with the breed.

Years ago I looked into the AWS, and also thought it might be a good fit. I'll fully admit to only dealing with a small handful of these dogs in practice, but to a dog they were all sharp in one way or another. Meaning they either had to be muzzled for us to look at them, had aggression problems with other dogs or territorial aggression. Here recently I met one that was one of the happiest, friendliest dogs you could hope to meet only to have my bubble burst when the family asked about suggestions for dealing with aggression at home. It may just be my small sample experience but it was enough to turn me off the breed for my own needs.

The more I dug the more the FBECS seemed to rise to the top of the list as filling my needs. I talked with several breeders and owners and was convincingly sold. I now know of several veterinarians, all from different parts of the country, who also hunt behind them as they were impressed with the dogs and the lack of health issues typically associated with the spaniels (ears and skin). I spent some time with a couple of the top breeders in the country and went to a field trial. I have been to a number of different field trials of all dog types and this was the first time that I could say without hesitation that I would have taken each dog home if offered to me. When I went to pick my pup up I spent a few days running dogs with them and was impressed as the dogs regularly did 100 yard marks and blinds. Certainly not with the skill of a retriever but they would get the job done. In the uplands I have NEVER seen a more animated hunter, to the point of being comical as to how hard these dogs work.

Of course there are downsides with this breed as well. They certainly are not late-season or big water dogs for chasing waterfowl. Mine happens to be white which should make hiding her a challenge come duck hunting next year. If you look at the breed long enough you will here comments like "cockers are characters" "devilish imps" a "pint of stout" etc. Basically this is code for the dog is occasionally possessed by the devil. I have never owned a more intelligent dog and one who thrives on mischievousness. Over the course of minutes I'll go from wanting to kill her to loving her. I was not prepared for the depth of their personality which certainly isn't for everyone.

Mine is only four months old so we are very early in the game. Thus far training is going well. I'm going to try to use some of the British methods and attempt to make it through without a collar (I've always used a collar) and to have a broke dog prior to even introducing her to birds. We'll see how it goes but those are my goals.

I would also throw a good, field-bred springer on to your radar. I have dealt with a number of field-bred springers and was turned off by skin/ear issues and aggression. During my cocker search though I ran into some amazing springers. I hate to admit this but on the weekend I went to pick Lily up I was extremely, extremely close to bringing back a started springer that I absolutely fell in love with. Most trainers that deal with both will tell you that as far as working dogs they are similar, it is in the personality department that they differ. Springers are more willing to please and laid back. They often mention that you train a springer and you have to ask a cocker. Looking back I'm not sure I'd change my decision, but I would have probably looked harder at the springers as well.

If you've made it this far in my windy post I suppose you deserve some pictures:

Chewing an expensive camera strap:

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Hupping is going well:

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She's a charger:

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And, I can't wait for this to be a real bird for the first time:

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Joe,

That is one fine looking FBECS. Having just entered 4 spaniel hunt tests this past fall, I saw a bunch of them. Well over 50 BB and FB. Most are cute as hell with a ton of drive. Some not much bigger than a large rabbit. They did their jobs well and very pleasant and loving pups. I can't say anything bad about them. Each dog is unique in it's own way. I saw handlers on their hand and knees begging the little bugger to bring them the bird.
If I were looking for an ECS knowing what I know now, I would go a few spaniel hunt tests and watch and ask questions. Alot of the folks there will be breeders. For me, they are just a little small. I hunt mostly tidal water and a larger dog may handle it better.
Best of luck with your pup Joe.
Dwight, good luck with your search.
 
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My first dog was an 35 pound AWS bitch. Now I've got two Boykin females, 28 & 35 pounds. A 20 month old and an 11 year old.

I will only own spayed females. I don't want to be concerned about owning a male that likes to fight.

A 35 pound dog moves through the woods easier than a smaller animal.

The Boykins have been easier to train, but this is still only a sampling of three.

All have been/are great dogs. If I lived near a breeder that had good field bred cockers that would have been a good choice too. I think the hype about the different flushing spaniel breeds is overdone. AQny dog needs to be trained. A dog will hunt or it won't. They don't know what breed they are.
 
Well, I showed the pics of Lily to my wife and daughter and they pretty much made the decision for me. Looks like we will be getting an ECS pup.
 
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