Fight It, Or Not? (Any Cops Here Feel Free To Weigh In. My feelings Won't Be Hurt If You Say I Deserve It)

Eric Patterson

Moderator
Staff member
Saturday morning I was headed to the hunting property to work on the duck blinds and drop boards in the water control structures. I was following a hunting partner, Patrick, when he went around a barrier that read "Road Closed No Thru traffic". I felt uneasy going around it, because as my friends and family put it, "I'm a rule follower", but decided to rather than split up. The barricade was blocking one lane and the yellow tape was broken and lying on the ground. Clearly people had been going around. My thought was they closed the road when we got 9" of rain the other night and had failed to take down all the signs when the flood waters receded.

Not too far after going around the orange and white sawhorse a police car came racing down the road from ahead of us and hit his blues. He jumped out and it was very apparent he was PISSED OFF BIGTIME. I mean pissed off like I had never seen a cop in my life. He was so amped up you would have thought he was responding to an ongoing deadly crime. Patrick said "Good Morning Officer." His first words to Patrick were "You are getting a ticket!!" He next walked up to me and in the same agitated state told me he was sick of the public going around the blockade and was giving me a ticket too and demanded my license. I told him it looked like the barricade was left over from the flood a few days ago and that is why I went around. He informed me the bridge (a 36" culvert under the road) was unsafe from the rain, and they always take down signs just as soon as roads are safe to travel (more on that bogus claim in a second). He asked us where we were going and we answered the question telling him we were not going to the next intersection or onto the highway. We were staying on the road taking us straight to the hunting lodge next to the Flint River where we had a day full of work.

With our licenses he goes back to his squad car and proceeds to write both of us a ticket. While waiting a group of a dozen bicyclists rides past us going around the barrier. He tells them to turn around but does not issue a single ticket. They have to follow the same rules of the road as we do, do they not? His actions were now were inconsistent on top of everything else. Now I'm the one getting pissed. When he comes back I tell him once again I thought the road closed sign was left over and that a bridge closed sign should have been put up. He told me they don't have any bridge closed signs but have them on order. He also tells me the reason for the road closure is on their Facebook page. Since when is Facebook the official place for police information? He was still agitated but against my best judgment I told him that the reason the public was going around the barricade was they had no idea a bridge was out and that was another matter entirely than recently receded flood waters. He said he wasn't going to argue and I could plead my case to the judge. I told him this was the pettiest ticket I had ever seen and was not arguing with him but rather explaining why people were going around the barricade. Not for the sake of my argument, but because he's pissed and the reason is so damn clear that the haphazard barricade and signs are misleading. Doesn't "No Thru traffic" mean traffic that isn't connecting to another road is permissible?

The fine and court costs may not even be worth my time to fool with, but I have to tell you, that guy was such a jerk it almost motivates me to fight it. Oh, his "they always take down road signs" claim was clearly wrong. On the way home on a connecting road there was a sign in full view that read "Road Flooded Ahead." Maybe I should send it to him on Facebook letting him know he missed one. BWAHAHAHA.

Eric
 
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Signing of Rd. Closed to thru traffic is used prior to actual Rd. Closed signing which should have reflective barricading at point of that sign. Take a look at a Uniform Traffic Control manual for state your located in. Thats the bible for proper signage for anything pretainig to hwys. And in my experience (36 years with MDOT doing signage/traffic managment work) the Closed to thru traffic signing you are allowed to go around say if you have a home or property a little further down that path but it is meant to keep out the majority of traffic flow.
 
Fight it!

Normally I'm against people fighting tickets as I think you should take your lump and quit wasting officers time. But this time I'd fight it. The number one reason is that the cop was a jerk. That on its own would fire me up. But the fact that you weren't going through makes you right. Hopefully you took a picture of the flooded sign that hasn't been removed yet as I think it will help your case!. Good luck.
 
roy brewington said:
Signing of Rd. Closed to thru traffic is used prior to actual Rd. Closed signing which should have reflective barricading at point of that sign. Take a look at a Uniform Traffic Control manual for state your located in. Thats the bible for proper signage for anything pretainig to hwys. And in my experience (36 years with MDOT doing signage/traffic managment work) the Closed to thru traffic signing you are allowed to go around say if you have a home or property a little further down that path but it is meant to keep out the majority of traffic flow.

Roy, I'm in Alabama. That is a great tip. I searched for my states code and found some info pertaining to what you say. However, I think the ALDOT (Ala Dept of Public Trans.) rules only apply to State Highways. This is a county road in the township of Owens Cross Roads. I fear anything ALDOT has to say does not apply. But I'm no lawyer..

Eric
 
I had the same thing happen a couple of years ago. It was after a big windstorm and there were a lot of trees down and roads closed. Well, I needed to get hunting and one of my normal roads I take was closed with a sawhorse. I drove around it to check to see if it was REALLY closed and there was a tree blocking the road. On turning around I met a cop at the sawhorse and he threw a fit. I was thinking, how the hell can this guy do his job if he gets pissed over this. Anyway, he took my license and I think I was going to get a ticket, but he got a call and sped off.
 
Eric,

As a first step, I'd talk with the local prosecutor about the ticket. Don't know just how it works in your area, but around here, it is up to the prosecutor to decide if it will even go to trial, should you enter a not guilty plea.

He may well decide that it is a case he can't win and will have the ticket rescinded before it ever goes to trial.
 
Fighting the ticket or not is one issue. As I see it there is a second issue, attitude of the officer. His job is to protect and serve. Being pissed off is not part of the job, in fact dealing with stressful situations is what the job is all about.

I would be talking to his boss, chief of police and possibly filing a compliant. Don't get me wrong, I fully respect the job they do and appreciate their serves, and if he want to write you a ticket that is one thing, but the attitude is unacceptable.
 
"Road Closed No Thru Traffic" is not the same as "Road Closed".
If you can make it to your destination without encountering the blockage, you aren't "Thru Traffic".
I'd call the Chief first, with this explanation.
Then fight it if they don't drop it.
Did you think to take a photo of the sign?
 
Eric
It's apparent the officer doesn't understand duck hunters and duck hunting.
He was definitely out of line from keeping you from working on your blind and being ready for the season.
Road closed?? That's why we have 4wd trucks, boats and canoes.
Whatever it takes to get to the blind!!!
 
This picture may help. The blue line headed south was us. The yellow line was the barricade, the orange line goes to our two destinations, and the red X the bridge deemed unsafe, albeit unknown to us. If we came from the south, instead of the North we would not have run into any problems getting to the south field. We were able to eventually get to the south destination by going the long way around. We were unable to drive to the other destination as there was another barricade, not shown but somewhere near the "Y" between our two destinations. All the cop needed to do was advise us and we would have steered clear until repairs are done. Instead he was a hot head and nailed Patrick and myself, while letting all the cyclists simply turn around. If one is guilty we all are. If one is not we all are not. You can't apply the law differently in the same situation. That and the fact we were not heading onward to Hobbs Island Road or 431, making us "Thru traffic" are two reasons why I think the tickets should not have been written.

View attachment BridgeOut.jpg

Eric
 
Actually at least in my state county government is held to the same traffic related standards as State maintained hwys. Its what keeps them out of lawsuits. I personally would call the chief and explain the signage issue . I know of no law enforcement officers that actually are aware of traffic rd. closure signage requirments. Stop, yield, speed limits yes but thats about it. Very good chance even the county employees who placed the sign might not have known right signage for the situation .
 
Most people can guess what I do for a living after talking to me. But I work in a city and never ever write people. That's mostly due to my belief that it's just taxation. I was not there but if demeanor is a issue file a internal Complaint. Was the cop wearing a BWC? I would fight any ticket I was issued. I would also photograph the sign if it's still up. No one can follow poor instructions. It sounds like "others" were going around the improper sign. Just my two cents.
 
I was curious if there was good reason for the patrolman to be upset so I checked the FB page. There are photos of the culvert in question, if I was their engineer I would probably advise closing the road. The photos aren't compelling but there is visible damage consistent with undermining of the pavement.

Also picked out this quote from the 10th at 9 PM:

We are still experiencing problems with drivers running around the barricades on Old Highway 431 in the 3400 block. Some drivers have ran over barricades and driven through police crime scene tape overnight and again today!


Scofflaws! LOL!

For me the issue is the attitude. Hotheaded police add to the potential for traffic stops to escalate, that would be my complaint to his Chief. I have posted on here recently regarding my gripe with "just because I can" ticket writing, but if the guy has a legitimate complaint it's hard to argue too much...... even though I might anyway. [smile] But approaching you like you're a felon is not the way to do it.
 
There's NO reason for him to lose his temper, much less write a chicken s#it ticket, and they wonder why some folks get hostile making matters worse...

Talk to the prosecutor. Then if you feel strongly enough make a complaint, Maybe the chief first, then IA when you get nowhere with the chief.

HOWEVER... be prepared to be a person of "special" attention.
 
I think Carl nails it. As grammar, "no through traffic" is modifying "road closed" on that sign. The version I see here is "Road closed to through traffic", which think clarifies that local traffic may proceed--which is the intent.

OTOH, if the barrier and tape were blocking the entire road, and if the cop had been dealing with folks repeatedly breaking the tape, and if the guy's boss had said to him, "Get those idiots off the road before someone dies" or something similar, I'd have some empathy for why he came on so strong.

I once drove around a half-assed road block on a long bridge at 4 am on my way fishing. I think they were just putting the road block together, and I was half asleep and swerved around a police car with blue lights flashing and didn't the notice that one of the cops was waving his arms at me to flag me down. I counted my blessings that no blue lights were following me, when right at the center of the drawbridge multiple police vehicles and officers with guns drawn were focused on a guy face down on the side of the road, hand-cuffed. One of the cops just waved me past. Maybe us northerners are just more relaxed about these things. [;)]
 
I think everyone is missing the officer's true motivation here....he was obviously protecting HIS new hunting spot and didn't want Eric & Co building blinds. The chief may be his hunting partner and if I know anything about politics, the DA is his father in law and president of the Police Duck Hunters Association....tread carefully with this one! ;)
 
My thought is if he was close enough to see you go past the barricade why wasn't he just posted there to protect the public?
Oh yeah then he couldn't write tickets. Seek a free consultation with a lawyer and see what he thinks weighing the fine verses
meeting him again while hunting and being harrased. Good Luck.
 
Eric,
If you are going to fight the ticket, I would suggest sticking to the relevant legalities and avoid the emotional stuff.

Anyone who watches the evening news has seen what police brutality looks like, yet even that often goes unaddressed, and this doesn't come close to that level of abuse. "Telling on" the officer for being rude to you might just sound like whining. No way to know what was on his mind, and everybody has a bad day once in a while. Unless he was way out of control or physically threatening, I would just forget about that part of the story.

And I would not make mention of the bicyclists at all. First, because bicycles aren't likely to damage a culvert to nearly the extent that a larger vehicle might. And second, because for every rule breaker who gets caught, many more go unpunished. One officer can't be expected to ticket all the scofflaws :). Again, it might be taken as whining. Generally speaking, whataboutism does not make a very good defense.

Your case is very simple and straightforward:

The road was closed to through traffic. You were not through traffic. No rule was broken.
Stick with that.

Anyway, as a lifetime die maker, die designer, and engineering manager, that's my legal opinion. :)
 
Fight it without a doubt but be prepared for it to some time. Here, if you go to your first court date you meet with a prosecutor or some other ?official?. They will read the charges against you and give you an opportunity to tell you side. At that point he officer can do one of three things: throw the ticket out, lower the fine amount, or schedule you for the actual court date to go in front of the judge. If your only options is to go to court, some States allow you to request/demand and jury trial.

On you scheduled day in front of the Judge, many times the officer isn?t present. You are allowed to demand that you.be able to question the officer and face your accuser. If the officer did t show up, the judge could reschedule or throw out the case as the officer is t there. If he tries to reschedule, I would scream foul as if you had to be there, and the Judge had to be there and the jurists had to be there, the officer is just wasting everyone?s and being disrespectful of the justice system used in this Country.

Any, I?m a retired old guy so I have the time to fight it. It also amuses me.

Mark
 

First off, ya went against yer gut feeling, as "a rule follower". Not good, as it takes one to know one. My guess is half yer anger is at yerself.

Second, at present your very worked up, and that is very understandable. Man O Man can I relate to that.

Lax and then Relax...


Questions are - how much time, money, and stress do you want to endure to resolve the situation.

Think about yer health more than anything else. It may sound strange, but it is not.

MI's happen for a reason, and stress is a major role. Ya build em, brick by brick.



my 2 cents
 
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