Great show today in Tuckerton. I had a quick question for the NJ guys

B

Bill Abbate

Active member
Great weather today at the show and excellent time seeing friends today from near and far. Upon examining all of the wonderful NJ BBSB's that were proudly displayed, I noticed that the majority of them did NOT have grassing rails. Is there a reason for this ? Conversely, when you attend the Long Island show; every boat there is grassed up with local vegetation. Is it illegal to grass up a boat in NJ with natural vegetation ? Thanks in advance.
 
No, it?s not illegal. A lot of the N.J guys have gone to marine netting for attaching grass. I use rails, but I think I?m in the minority?
 
Not illegal, just a different style from the long island grass boats. I grew up gunning out of a southbay so my sneakbox has grass rails similar to the southbay style. My roy boat has the netting, so best of both worlds!
 
Good morning, Bill~


Here's my take - from a life misspent messing about with (duck) boats....


My understanding of Sneakboxes is that they were seldom built with thatch rails - until more recent decades. I have read that gunners typically would get to their spot and then festoon the decks with wrack or hay cut on-the-spot. This explains to me why most traditional Barnegats have toe rails along the decks - to keep the "thatch" - or eel grass or ice or snow - where it will do some good.


I believe - but am more than willing to be shown otherwise - that thatch rails were "invented" on Long Island. Of the three principal types of marsh vessels - collectively known as "grassboats" - most were long built with thatch rails. (I have seen most Seaford Skiffs without thatch rails - but with toe rails like the Sneakboxes.)



View attachment sm Hull Sections - Three with NAMES.jpg



So, I would say that thatch rails were more "traditional" on Long Island.


The other common difference between Jersey Sneakboxes and LI grassboats is the cockpit length. Whereas traditional Sneakboxes most often have short ~ 4-foot) cockpits, LI boats most often have cockpits about 6-feet long.



I have often speculated about the root causes. I wonder, especially, if more Jersey gunning is done in areas with a big tidal range. Such ranges makes it easier to hide without laying on one's back. Tidal ranges vary lots around Long Island, but most of the South Shore bays see about 2-feet or less rise and fall in a day.


Two years ago, I tried to cut some Salt Hay south of Tuckerton for my Sneakbox. I was impressed how difficult it was to find any long Hay. So, maybe it was simply the abundance of nice long Salt Hay in Great South Bay that led to thatch rails.


This photo - from Duck Shooting along the Atlantic Tidewater - is from Bellport Bay.


View attachment Connett_- Scooters on Titus Bog.jpg



...and this young man is thatching a "proper" duckboat.....


View attachment sm SJS Thatching Grassboat ~ 1981 - lightened.jpg



Others' thoughts?


All the best,


SJS













 
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Hi Steve,

I can't say as I'm familiar with the term toe rail for a sneak box. I have always thought of a thatch rail as running along the top edge of the bow and providing space under which to anchor cut grass. What I was shown was grass would be attached to the spray shield, cover the bow and be anchored under the thatch rail. As it happens, a gentlemen met me at the Ocean County show and showed me pictures of a sneakbox my great grandfather built and sold him in the 60"s. I believe he would like to sell me the boat, which is basically a time capsule. This sneakbox hasn't even been glassed. This picture shows what I consider to be thatch rails.

Regards,
Bob
View attachment IMG-0609 (00000002).JPG
 
Along these lines, another thing I recently noticed (among folks who use thatch rails) is that some seem to prefer securing the grass with the tips pointing toward the center of the boat, while others appear to like just the opposite.

I couldn't decide which approach to use this year, and so went with a staggered approach (alternating between inward and outward pointing tips). This, I think breaks up the boat's outline well, and I am pleased with it.
 
Steve~


Like anything else, there are different schools of thought. One Pattersquash member - who thatched his Scooter in his kitchen - combed out each bundle of Salt Hay before thatching. And, it was almost a "rule" there to take a big pair of shears and neaten up the edges:


(another photo from Connett's book)


View attachment Connett - Thatched up Scooter.jpg



Personally, I prefer the natural look - and do the same as you, alternating the ends - and certainly not barbering them. And - with a belts and suspenders approach - I usually toss some wrack across the thatched decks - to better blend with the inevitable the wrack line when I situate the boat for a hunt.


All the best,


SJS






View attachment Connett - Thatched up Scooter.jpg
 
Bob~


I agree that your Grandfather's boat has thatch rails up forward - and I also agree that you should buy the boat!


Also, since the first Sneakbox was born in 1836, I regard any duckboat built after WW II to be "modern era". So, not surprising to see thatch rails on a "newer" vessel.



The term "toe rails" makes more sense on larger boats, where one walks on the decks. In any event, they are intended to keep people or stuff (decoys?) from slipping over the gunwales. Most have scuppers in them - usually amidships and aft - where they can drain water when the boat is at rest (moored or berthed).


Here is my partner's VanSant Sneakbox from the 1950s (?). It has toe rails up forward - with no way to place Salt Hay beneath them.


View attachment sm VanSant toe rails and spray curtain.JPG



Peter Guthorn's (great - must have) book shows numerous Sneakboxes.



View attachment sm Toe Rail 04 - Guthorn The Sea Bright Skiff.jpg



Some have toe rails, some have clean decks - but none has thatch rails.


View attachment sm Toe Rail 01.jpg



This 'box looks very similar.


View attachment Toe Rail 02.jpg



This 'box is 'glass - but still has toe rails.


View attachment sm Toe Rail 03.jpg



As always, I'll happily defer to any Jersey Boys on this topic. It would be a fun conversation at next year's Tuckerton show.



All the best,


SJS

 
So much great information Steve! I owned and repaired a 1940's VanSant, but when I bought it had neither toe rails or thatch rails and was in very rough shape so it is not conclusive. I imagine many innovations took place over the years as builders adapted.

I probably should pursue my great grand fathers sneakbox and maybe i will some day. I'm not aware of a more original example of a sneakbox he built. The family does have a few that he built though. Carl Adams built sneakboxes upon request, but was best known for skiffs and custom fishing boats. I'm currently keeping my powder dry in pursuit of bigger game. This boat was free to a good home about 10 years ago, but I wasn't ready to take it on.
View attachment prospector2011.JPG
 
WOW!


Of course, I'd probably cut it down to about 6 inches above the waterline, then put a high-crowned deck on it - then a cockpit long enough for at least 3 gunners.....


More seroiusly - 1940s??? What make ? I love the plumb stem.


All the best,


SJS





 
You?re correct it?s 40?s or 50?s. I?ll have to track down the exact. It?s a Carl Adams boat. He built them with perhaps 2 assistants under the name Modern Boatworks in Port Republic NJ. I have some period photos of other boats he built as early as Prohibition I can share.
 
Bob, You should buy that Carl Adams Garvey from that guy in Pa.He was trying to get this other guy to buy it and the price just got more and more as he talked to everyone there. They are good little boats.
Phil
 
Josh Schwenger said:
Wow a boat from my home town.
Click to expand...

Hi Josh,

Yes, his shop was the tin building near the Route 9 bridge over Nacote Creek. Its still there, but I think it has been converted to a residence. When the state built the new bridge the location of the bridge was actually shifted because they deemed the boat works to be of historical value.

Bob
 
Very interesting Bob i know that creek like the back of my hand it where i learned to run my boat and have been hunting there the last 24 or so years. The Nacote creek marina there sells hydrotek ply wood very reasonable if anyone ever needs some.
 
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