Guides in certain areas.... like ND

LI-Jack

LI-Jack

Active member
I didn't want to hijack the thread about hunting in ND. So I started this one. Matt V. struck a cord with the comment of "guides locking out hunters."

I agree with what he is saying, it seems tough for hunters to get started into hunting when all the land is locked up by leases. The options of hunting public lands is still a viable option and at times can be very productive, however it can get crowded fast. In my area, the farm land owners lease to guides and small clubs (which helps them financially) but restricts someone like me without deep pockets to approach the land owner to ask permission to hunt.

I'm not knocking guides or guiding but when it comes down to traditional hunting, seeking land to hunt and asking permission to hunt those lands... it's not easy unless you have a deep pocket of cash.

In the past few years, I got out onto some farms still but mostly 200 miles away from where I live, those farmers ask for one thing - respect, respect their property. This year I hunted 2 farms close to home, with friends who know the farmer, he wont lease the land because of a bad experience doing so in the past. It was never like this, I would say in the last 15 years things change, hate to see this happen in a "free lance state (i.e. ND)"


-Jack
 
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then came the layout boats, they were born in western lake erie and detroit river and now look there everywhere cause the man without deep pockets can at least get some shooting.
 
It goes deeper than the guides.

In many cases, it comes down to survival of the still left independant farmers.

If you were a struggling farmer & could get a lease on your property to cover the taxes & still make a little money, what would you do.

Have the door knockers or a steady income???

It sucks but it's the sign of the times!!!
 
The price the guides pay in ND and most places is a drop in the bucket, when it comes to a farmer making it. Do you know what implements cost?
 
Phils right about lease money being a drop in the bucket for North dakota farmers. I think it could have a lot to do with the N D farmers helping assure the local guides a good place to take their hunters. In these towns or counties just about everybody is related to everybody! So if the guides are trying to make part of their living in a month and a ,half or at the most two months the locals are just supporting their own. My God in central North Dakota even with some posted land if a hunter cant find a place to hunt,He's got a problem. Now back to the guides theres good and bad in all,we had a horrible situation in ND a few years back. A big time hunt lodge was double limiting their fares among other violations and dumping the birds out in a field. I guess they thought no one would ever catch on, but they were wrong.These guys were in a heap of trouble. the magazines showed a picture with a pile of dead birds big as a car, rotting out in a field.I think there is an even greater responsibility here on the part of the hunters! they knew what was going on. Jack I grew up on LI 1n 1948 my folks bought their first house there most of LI was farm land, woods and small towns. Today if I had farm land on LI iI think I would post it too! I can just imagine what a zoo it would be, too many hunters fighting over what little open land there is left.Im sure this will stir controversy as Im sure the situation is a little different everywhere, but this is what I see in North Dakota, and what I imagine the situation to be on LI as I have not gunned there in 31 years.
 
Around this neck of the woods...

Big game on private property is a money maker...some hunts run well over 7 grand fully guided (trophy mulies and elk) and the land owner gets a nice tiddy sum in his pocket, the guide makes a tad, and there is some control of the number of people on the ranch/property. So while it might seem that the money a land owner pockets is peanuts, it is almost pure profit (very little cash outlay by the landowner) and the benefit of knowing how many people are on your property and when, has great value. Some hunts I have heard rumored are 10 grand now..

Some farmers also lease their ground for waterfowl hunting for the same reasons.

Matt
 
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A better place to discuss the Guide/Outfitter issue in ND is probably the ND forum at the Refuge, or NoDak Outdoors, rather than here. From what I've gleaned over the years, the locals who hunt, do NOT like the G/O's anymore than the NR hunter. They also don't like Minnisota license plates. Many farmers do NOT like DU, and I've heard stories of hunters being turned away because of a DU logo on a hat or a DU emblem on the truck window. There is a story out there about an outfitter, who is now, or has been, locked up for multiple game violations.....I heard that at one point he had 20,000 acres or so all leased up around a town called Streeter. The locals couldn't hunt anywhere near close to home! This is all 3rd or 4th hand information, so take it for what it's worth. When I was able to get out there in 2003, probably half the spots where we were were posted/leased. I actually saw one sign that read "Hunting allowed for non residents only". I wonder what that was about.
 
A better place to discuss the Guide/Outfitter issue in ND is probably the ND forum at the Refuge, or NoDak Outdoors, rather than here. From what I've gleaned over the years, the locals who hunt, do NOT like the G/O's anymore than the NR hunter. They also don't like Minnisota license plates. Many farmers do NOT like DU, and I've heard stories of hunters being turned away because of a DU logo on a hat or a DU emblem on the truck window. There is a story out there about an outfitter, who is now, or has been, locked up for multiple game violations.....I heard that at one point he had 20,000 acres or so all leased up around a town called Streeter. The locals couldn't hunt anywhere near close to home! This is all 3rd or 4th hand information, so take it for what it's worth. When I was able to get out there in 2003, probably half the spots where we were were posted/leased. I actually saw one sign that read "Hunting allowed for non residents only". I wonder what that was about.
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"A better place to discuss the Guide/Outfitter issue in ND is probably the ND forum at the Refuge, or NoDak Outdoors, rather than here."
Right on Jim - Duck boats-ducks.. not pheasant.
 
ah good old sheldon, unfortunately he is not behind bars as he should be. The game violations against him over the years is countless, but the sex with a minor for the most part put his business under. I should state not just any minor but a couple girls that he had hired as entertainment for cleints. I have had a couple run ins with him, freindly but he also told my dad and brother to hunt some of his fathers land, he didn't tell them that he had knocked down the refuge lease signs. I did stopped them in time. He did lease a huge aount of acres and then would park his truck with headlights on overnight in a unposted field that he wanted to hunt. The area people are still divided on him and his business, many got out and is one reason for the amount of plots in the area. But others feel he brought in vauleable business, even though clients never went to the local bars or business's, he had everything on site.

the culture of using a guide to get the best hunt possible is going to be a our downfall. Instead of learning yourself how to do it, they'll just hire someone, thats just lazy. I view most guides as Pimps, they maybe selling access but for the most part they are selling the wildlife. I think there are certain areas they are needed, but for the most part their culture will ruin hunting for the vast majority of us.
 
Bill; now we know how you feel about non resident hunters and hunt guides how about charter boat captains? If you ever come back east and want to do some off shore fishing I guess you will just swim out there and learn for yourself.
 
rich, I have been a NR hunter of ND for 12 years and will be again sometime. My view of the ND NR resident problem has been the same throughout. There has to be some restrictions in place for the concern of the resource and the quality of hunting in the state for NR and Residents.

As I stated there are some situations where a guide is needed in the country, I won't deny that. But for most places, they are harmful to our sport. I don't have as much of a problem with fishing guides as they are not tieing up land to keep the regular folks out.
 
Bill you are so correct!

the culture of using a guide to get the best hunt possible is going to be a our downfall. Instead of learning yourself how to do it, they'll just hire someone, thats just lazy.
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I think that statement can be readily applied to most in our society when they want to do about anything. "why should I do it when I can pay someone else to do it for me" is a very common sentiment.
 
So you guys dont think captains and fishing guides are territorial? next time you fish a strange area just wait till you spot a pro guide or captain, then follow around in his wake all day! See what his reaction is! There is this thing called respect, especially for a guy trying to feed his family fishing, or hunting.
 
There is also something called the Public Trust Doctrine....Thats their decision to make a living off exploiting public resources and they have no more right to it than anyone else. If there business suffers, too bad.
 
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