Hunting Boat War Eagle vs Building

M

Matt Hoffman

New member
How are you all doing. I am a new user to this site and from what I can see am in the right place. I am a very avid waterfowl hunter hunt every weekend and when ever I get a chance during the week. So far all I have hunted is on land or in canoes or kayaks or when I can hitch a ride in my buddies boat on the big water. Well the wife finally gave me permission to get a duck boat so I can expand my hunting time areas and hopefully my bag and species limits. The question I have is should I buy an aluminum War Eagle or build my own probably a Devlin Scaup. I have the ability right now to buy a 16 foot 2000 War Eagle with a 2001 20 horse Merc with a trailor for 2,000 from a buddy. I know thats a good deal but should I use the money to build my own boat. I am trying to figure out what is going to better in the long run I know the war eagle is instant hunting and building will not. The real question is whats better huntability, comfort, ride, versatility, longevity, wear and tear those type of things are the real question. I appreciate all your help guys and information you have on my dilemma. Thanks again and hope to find out the answer here.
 
Matt,

Here are my thoughts...

Wood boats are a lot of work to build and maintain and they need to be babied to some extent... Size for size any one of the devlin designs will kick the ass of a tin boat in terms of seakeeping ability and will triple kick ass in terms of looks and function.

When I say they need to be babied, I usually get 27 responses from people saying I'm full of shit and they run their boat hard and blah, blah blah... I've owned a snowgoose for 5 years and semi-babied it and it got pretty beat up over that time and I fixed little things as they came up along the way, I'm also on the water 50-75 days a year with it. They are plywood covered in epoxy and glass, if the epoxy is breached, the boat is compromised, so great care is needed in terms of installing and properly bedding hardware and fixing points of wear or damage. My perspective is that these boats are not boats that you can beach on a rocky shore and let sit there and grind on the rocks, you can't pull your anchor chain across the sheer or slam an anchor on the deck, etc... these things will leave marks and will cut through the epoxy, allowing water into the wood. The fixing and maintaing is easy, since you built the boat, it takes time though.

As far as seaworthyness, the Devlin designs are much better than a tin boat and get better as conditions deteriorate (so you can use a smaller boat that is easier to hide which increases functionality). They tend to ride with a bow up attitude at low speeds and are decked, so you take on dramatically less water than an open boat. This is a subjective evaluation and open ot lots of arguing, but in terms of seaworythness, the devlin designs add 2-3-4 feet compared to a tin boat. That is a 16' Devlin boat in bad weather would be similarily safe to a 18' tin boat or more. I know if the weather got really really bad, there are few tin boats less than 20' I'd pick over my 16' snowgoose and the ones I'd pick would be self bailers.

Other downsides are the Devlin boats take a lot of HP to plane because of their hull design, so they are more expensive to power.

One caution is they are a huge investment in time and money and should be thought of as a specialist's custom boat, in my opinion. The boat is a 2-300 hour investment to build and an annual investment as well. I see far too many folks build them only to build them bare bones without the niceties that all the effort put in deserves. I'd say before you build one it is important to know what you want the boat to do and to spend the extra time to build the boat with the attributes that will increase it functionality - like well thought out wiring that is concealed, shelves and cabinets that serves as spots for storage, good drainage, easy access to all parts of the boat, cockpit covers to keep your gear safe, integrated blind, etc...

In my opinion though, they are worth every bit of effort!

Tod
 
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If you are handy and can craft your own boat there nothing like hunting out of a boat you built, along the lines of hunting over your decoys! For immediate use and for longevity go with the war eagle. You should be curious why the boat is only 2k, they usually go for a lot more than that. Hope my 2 pennies helped.
Jim/Fowlfishing
 
In todays market and depending on how good of a shopper you are $2,000 will just cover your materials and tools and might even buy a trailer in your area. If you are good at craigslist shopping you might even find an old motor and a trailer within your budget.

If you are wanting to eventually have a mud motor you should go for the tin boat. I don't know how useful a mud motor is in upstate NY. If a mud motor will never be on the wish list then building a boat would be the preferance.

However, you still have to ask yourself about how you use the boat. Do you hunt in very shallow water such as 12" or less? Then a displacement hull of any size over 12 feet will be hard to use. Several buddies and a dog then a larger boat like the Scaup will work.

If you do a lot of lake hunting and get into a lot of chop then as Todd writes a good design that is home made will be safer than the tin boat.
 
In todays market and depending on how good of a shopper you are $2,000 will just cover your materials and tools and might even buy a trailer in your area. If you are good at craigslist shopping you might even find an old motor and a trailer within your budget.

If you are wanting to eventually have a mud motor you should go for the tin boat. I don't know how useful a mud motor is in upstate NY. If a mud motor will never be on the wish list then building a boat would be the preferance.

However, you still have to ask yourself about how you use the boat. Do you hunt in very shallow water such as 12" or less? Then a displacement hull of any size over 12 feet will be hard to use. Several buddies and a dog then a larger boat like the Scaup will work.

If you do a lot of lake hunting and get into a lot of chop then as Todd writes a good design that is home made will be safer than the tin boat.
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I did get hung up on his "big water" statement and yes, you are right on the marsh aspect. If a lot of shallow marsh hunting were in order a Jon or shallow Mod-v would be a good option.
 
Thanks for the info so far from everyone, to answer a few of the questions I plan on using the boat in some of the larger lakes around here and out in western NY as well as in the hudson and mohawk rivers. if the water is real shallow I would be using my canoe or wading it as I have done for years without a boat. I plan on building some blinds that I would need a large boat to get to as well as hunting new areas of big water bays and marshes where the boat and a pop blind would be the ideal situation. As far as the cost of the war eagle it is a buddies and he wants a new one and is helping out a friend, I have hunted out of the boat and it is in good shape motor is pristine. I know the boat will take time to make and probably wont be completed till next hunting season but I am slightly worried about maintenance. As most of our lake shores and rivers banks are rocky and rough which may be hard on the boat. Is there a way to laminate or applie in the hull a protective plate of some sort like a very hard plastic or kevlar sheet which may help with the wear and tear. I really like the idead of being more seaworthy as I would like to run it on southern champlain lake george and other lakes which has the potential for rough waters at times, I know i cant use this out on the middle of lake erie however it would be nice to hunt the niagra river in january though. If I do go with building my own boat I would try to make it my own and really incorporate all the little hints and tricks of guys who know what works and what dosnt. Hopefully I could bounce ideas and problems off some people here to make it the best it can be. Thanks for the time and good hunting early goose is only 6 days away.
 
Sounds like you have some good adventuring planned for this boat! From what you say a 16' war eagle might be pushing it for your use, it would be for me anyway in terms of the size of the water.

As far as fragility, the boats can hit bottom once and a while or graze rocks, they can't however take grinding away for hours at a time or be ridden up on a rocky shore. I'm familiar with the areas you are talking about and they are rocky like you say. To put my concerns another way, 'glass over wood is a very poor choice if you plan to have encounters with rocks, but if you once and a while visit with a rock here and there, they hold up great. I'd build with 2 layers of 'glass on the hull or glass over kevlar as I did.

I will say don't confuse the semi-cosmetic "fragile" I'm talking about with ability to survive a bad encounter with a rock. I"m pretty sure a stitch and glue boat would fare better in an impact and would be more likely to get you home.

There are a lot of folks here that will help out as the time comes. If you decide to build, it will be a long haul and I dont' know your schedule, but it may be optomistic to say you will be in the water for next fall.
 
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If you decide to build, this is the site. A lot of experience people here to help you along the way. My thoughts are there is a reason for a dedicated duck boat and this from some one who has hunted out of tin boats a lot. Safety.. The margin of safely is much larger. This is not to discount judgement as being important. A swamped boat in Nov, Dec, Jan, is a lot different than june or july.
 
Good place to ask the question. I'm much like you when it comes to this type of decision.

I just returned from the annual DBHF get together on Goose Island in LaCrosse WI. Here people bring the boats they built along with decoys they have carved. I leave this gathering feeling humbled and inferior somewhat as the boats that individuals build are beautiful and you can tell many hours of care have gone into the making and maintaining the boats. I always leave promising myself that someday I'll build my own boat as I can think of nothing better than hunting in a boat you built with your own hands. (I never leave thinking I'll carve my own decoys as I have zero artistic talent).

Then the other side takes over. While I can make the time to build a boat, I would have to take it from somewhere else. Having two kids takes a bunch of time and boat building time would be taken from family time. Until the kids are gone, this time with them is very valuable. I know Rick Kyte just built a couple of boats with his boys and it looks like a great project to do with your kids. They sure enjoyed the boats this past weekend. My boy right now would rather build a car and since I have done this before, we may go this route.

An aluminum boat will do what you want it to do. Take the time to make it uniquely yours and it will serve you well. For what it is worth.

Mark W
 
Like it was already said time is short. I doubt you cold build a boat in time for this season. My thought would be, get yourself the boat and play with it a season or two. It will help you find out what you really need from a boat. Then in the mean time you could start building your boat. When building you only buy so much at a time as each step is completed. You wont be in for such a large lump sum right off the back. Taking your time and not being pressured by a clock could make it more fun than a daunting task. By the way I have a 16 war eagle. It is fine in a small chop by my self or with another buddy and gear. But I would not want to be out if it realy began to blow. And no matter what a boat is made of if you hit a rock hard enough it won't be good.
 
The wooden drift boat builders out west bounce their boats on rocks all day. They have the bottoms and chines of their boats sprayed with bed liner. The spray company does not mix in the rough little bits that give the liner traction. I remember one guy saying he takes his to a local Line-X guy and he does a thin mix to make a smooth surface. However a smooth surface for a drift boat is not smooth enough for a boat under power up on step.

Another option is SteelFlex. It comes out of Florida and is used on the bottoms of air boats to make them slicker than owl snot on ice. I can make for fun launches I have been told.

What a lot of folks don't understand about a wooden hull is that under impact it bends and bounces. Yes there may be a little surface damage but there will be minimal structural damage.

Epoxy is a very flexible material and takes a lot of glass to make it stiff. When used on quality plywood or solid wood that has the grain going the right way, it will flex with the impact and not break.

Of course if you are going fast enough any material will break.
 
The wooden drift boat builders out west bounce their boats on rocks all day. They have the bottoms and chines of their boats sprayed with bed liner. The spray company does not mix in the rough little bits that give the liner traction. I remember one guy saying he takes his to a local Line-X guy and he does a thin mix to make a smooth surface. However a smooth surface for a drift boat is not smooth enough for a boat under power up on step.

Another option is SteelFlex. It comes out of Florida and is used on the bottoms of air boats to make them slicker than owl snot on ice. I can make for fun launches I have been told.

What a lot of folks don't understand about a wooden hull is that under impact it bends and bounces. Yes there may be a little surface damage but there will be minimal structural damage.

Epoxy is a very flexible material and takes a lot of glass to make it stiff. When used on quality plywood or solid wood that has the grain going the right way, it will flex with the impact and not break.

Of course if you are going fast enough any material will break.
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I agree Ray I say beat up, but I didn't find any breaches in my hull from rock contact, lots and lots of deep scratches, but no saturated wood.

An open wooden driftboat is also a whole lot more disposable than a boat you have a couple hundred hours of your time in. When I started my snowgoose projecrt, I was thinking... cool, if this boat lasts 10 years I can make another. At this point the boat better last a hell of a lot longer becasue I'm not building another! No way!
 
Hi Matt. Me and a friend (Frank Kehoe) built a snow goose to use on Champlain. While I'm not on the water more than 25 days a year with it, mine has lasted just fine with no water incursion into the wood. I remember telling my wife that when I launched it, I was 40 years old, and I assumed that I would be able to use it for 25 years not including any motor issues. I'm 49 now and I still assume that I'll get 20+ years from this point on. Its all in how you treat the boat.

As to time spent building being time away from family, that is a real thing. I've got a strong itch to build another boat, but with one kid who is a high school senior and one who's a freshman, I just can't seem to work it into the schedule.

The guy who helped me build my boat grew up in Glens Falls and has hunted all those lakes you mentioned. He owned a War Eagle and now owns a Lund Alaska, as much due to issues with geting caught in rough seas in the semi vee jon boat as anything else.

As you know hunting this far north in late season is not to be taken lightly. Whatever boat you get/build, make sure you have the most dependable motor on it you can get. Don't scrimp to save a few bucks.

John Bourbon
 
A few insights:

I run a 14 mod-v jon with an 18hp on everything from shallow little bays barely 1' deep and 10 acres in size to the open water of Mobile Bay and MIssissippi Sound. While it has served me well, hopefully this is the last year I will be using this rig. I plan to switch to a semi-V (Smokercraft or Lund most likely) next year. To me, mod-v jons just dont have the ride for big water. My current rig really forces me to watch the weather and it forces me to abandon going spots I know have birds because the mod-v jon is marginally safe under the conditions at hand. There are number of semi-v's in the 15-16' range that draw as little water as a mod-v jon but handle rough water much better. Think about one of those if you dont build. I think you will be happier with the ride & rough water handling capability of the semi-v.

In regards to the 20 hp on the 16' War Eagle. Sure sounds underpowered to me. Like I mentioned, I have an 18hp on my 14' boat and sure wish I could run a 25 (only rated for 20). The War Eagles 1648s are rated for 40 HP, I would be running a minimum of 25hp on there and it probably needs at least 30 hp. Especially on the big water where you might just need some extra HP to get you out of a bad spot.

Build or Buy? I wanted to build my own boat but life circumstances have conspired against me. Every time I see one of the guys here progressing with thier build, I really wish I could build my own. I say go for it even if it means hunting from canoe, kayaks & buddies boat for one more season.
If I could build right now, I would build two hulls: a Devlin Bluebill for hunting by myself and a Devlin Cackler or Snowgoose for me & the boy to hunt & fish out of.
 
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There are number of semi-v's in the 15-16' range that draw as little water as a mod-v jon but handle rough water just as well.
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Meant to say:

There are number of semi-v's in the 15-16' range that draft as little water as a mod-v jon but handle rough water much better.
 
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Hey Matt, I am a 1754Wareagle and Black Brant II owner. If the Wareagle is floating, with a motor and trailer, $2k is a steal. I have $2500 in building a BBII. Each has its +/-. Wareagle, 25hp Mudmotor is nearly unstoppable in the marsh, creeks, rivers and tidal areas; but underpowered for open water and long to the blind runs in the wee hours. The BBII, my second built- is just a labor of love, and by far more seaworth with a spray shield and a 15 evinrude, she makes no bones about 3 ft seas, little spray, but a 25 hp outboard is the right size. I can sneak her into 6 inches in shallow drive before getting out, and lifting the motor.

I get the wareagle and plan the devlin build which took most of a year. //good luck//
 
Matt,
I agree with Frank. At $2k, you could get the War Eagle, and have a boat now. You are going to put over 2k into jsut the build of a comparable wooden boat. Add trailer and motor, and you start looking at $3.5-5k to put a build in the water. You can always build the wooden boat for next year, sell the War Eagle (perhaps even reuse the trailer/motor on the new boat?). BTW- I built a Devlin Broadbill and BB2, and love both of them.

-Bill
 
For this season, you can't go wrong buying that War Eagle for $2K. Heck, the trailer and motor are worth all of that and then some.

Besides, you have a leg up if you decide to build next year - you have a motor and trailer and can sell the War Eagle hull by itself.

I had a 16' war eagle (DSV, IIRC), and while it wasn't my favorite boat ever, it was a good boat. I'm in VT and it is good for many things (except Lake Champlain open lake on marginal days - it isn't a big water hull). They ride well and are pretty well made. It is a boat that I wouldn't mind having in the "fleet" if I had unlimited funds (which I do NOT).

Charlie
 
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